Critical Analysis and Development.

[GuingesRock]

I've been brewing enthusiastically for a year, mostly IPAs and DIPAs. People who drink my beer seem to like it a lot and ask for more, I like it too (sometimes too much), but that's pretty normal for home brewed beer.

BUT! I want to take it further. I think they might just be after free beer

This seems to be the perfect place to find experienced brewers who could taste and comment constructively on how to improve the beer.

There are some very experienced brewers here who can cut through crap with the precision of a laser beam, and that would be ideal for me...forget the "jolly good old boy" stuff.

There is a powerful resource here that I'm wondering if I can tap into some way.

I have no idea what diacetyl tastes like. I have no idea how my beer measures up to the best of them, and I want it to.

[mr x]

Diacetyl, lol. You are next to the diacetyl capital of Nova Scotia, Sea Level Brewing. It tastes like butter. It's added to microwave popcorn for that reason.

[GuingesRock]

Diacetyl, lol. You are next to the diacetyl capital of Nova Scotia, Sea Level Brewing. It tastes like butter. It's added to microwave popcorn for that reason.

Thanks! Don't think I have it then. Is it good?...bad?...and what causes it? I could look it up I suppose, but I figured you could put it in a nutshell.

[GAM]

Mark

I know its a trip for you but the next BN meetup would be a great place to start. You can also call a "I'm in town" get together and others can tell you if they can show.

Sandy

[mr x]

Is it good?...bad?...and what causes it? I could look it up I suppose, but I figured you could put it in a nutshell.

It's acceptable at lower levels, but the whole issue is one of debate. It's considered a flaw in many beers. Caused by different things, like fermentation or infection.

[GuingesRock]

Mark

I know its a trip for you but the next BN meetup would be a great place to start. You can also call a "I'm in town" get together and others can tell you if they can show.

Sandy

Thanks Sandy, After one of your funny comments in another thread, I'm leaving a couple of bottles with Dave for you on Saturday. I know he's away but he's leaving my grain at a drop off point and I'm leaving the beer there too. If you have any suggestions maybe you might send me a quick email. I would appreciate that.

Thanks Mr. X, that's perfect. I can't stand microwave popcorn, it makes me want to throw up, so I'm sure I'll be able to pick that up from now on!

[GAM]

[quote="GuingesRock"]
Thanks Sandy, After one of your funny comments in another thread, I'm leaving a couple of bottles with Dave for you on Saturday. I know he's away but he's leaving my grain on the step and I'm leaving the beer somewhere for him. If you have any suggestions maybe you might send me a quick email. I would appreciate that.

I am in Cape Breton and won't be in the area. Post it and they may come. Lunch at the H&T or RB may get some out.

Sandy

[HPhunter]

Mark
I live outside Berwick and make it up to the city once in awhile for a meeting. Maybe we can carpool.
Jeff

[GuingesRock]

Mark
I live outside Berwick and make it up to the city once in awhile for a meeting. Maybe we can carpool.
Jeff

Jeff, That sounds perfect! Maybe a Saturday or Sunday meeting. I’m completely "done in" when I get home from work and that’s quite a trip. Give me a shout...or I'll give you one.

My wife and I really want to go to Hoptoberfest, hopefully we can find an overnight babysitter and stay in the city.

Thanks

[GAM]

My kids will do a sitting gig if you need. we usually have a house of kids in the hoop with lots of cell phone #.

Sandy

[GuingesRock]

Cheers Sandy…that’s sweet as hell of you, but he's young and it will need to be someone he’s familiar with. We have some friends who might stay here with him, they know where the beer fridge is, and also there is a lovely lady who used to have him during the day while we working, and he loves staying over with her. Hopefully it will all work out.

[GuingesRock]

I've just been reading some fairly amazing biographical stuff on Nash.

Interviewer: What are the benefits of brewing beer in a brewpub?

Nash: Brewpubs are great for experimental brewing and honing in on the mainstay beer process, and the instant customer feedback is the best.

Feedback might be something every brewer needs...I wonder if Brewnoser's drop off points in the different regions/areas where people could pick up each other's beers, try them and evaluate critically might be an idea. Perhaps local brewing supply shops might agree to provide that service for customers? Would be good for out of towners like me who can only get to the city occasionally.

One of my issues that leads to bigger insecurities for me, is I don't follow tried and true recipes. I make IPAs and keep to base malts usually and play around with hopping techniques and different hops.

I gave some beer to my secretary to take home for her + husband and their buddies to try. They are usually Coors Light drinkers. The report back was that The Overnighter was "too hoppy and too bitter" and I was perversely delighted with that response. The Overnighter is the favorite of my wife and I, but we have become hopheads. What's confusing me is they "all absolutely loved" champagne Cascade, and both beers are DIPAs.

[GuingesRock]

Greg Nash told me today at his brew pub that he thought “drinkability is the key”. That's great advice, and I hope he won’t mind me quoting him.

So!.. I show people where the beer fridge is, see which one they keep pouring themselves, and when they can’t help themselves, drink way too much, start bumping into things and breeching social boundaries, the beer’s passed its test.

A picture says a thousand words.

If people find a beer that they really like and suits their taste, they start looking a bit worried when their glass is getting empty. I know I do that any way.

[jtmwhyte]

Mark,

I'll be passing through your neck of the woods on Wednesday and Thursday of this week. I'm going down to Aylesford to take my son to the Oaklawn Zoo and we're going to camp overnight (probably in Aylesford) and I got the green light from the wife to stop by Paddy's and do a beer swap if your up for it. I have some of my Smoky Irish Bastard (Irish Red made with beechwood smoked malt) and MAY be able to bottle off one or two of my Rye'd the Walrus Pale Ale (It may be a bit murky or even undrinkable as I haven't pulled a pint yet). Let me know if you want to try to meet up.

[GuingesRock]

Sounds great (and interesting), We live 10 mins walk from Paddys. You could all come here maybe, or we could all go to Paddy's for supper, or the Port Pub, just across the bridge in Port Williams. Now Mr. X has christened it the diacetyl capitol of Nova Scotia, I have to go there again to see if I can taste microwave popcorn in the beer. I really like one of the beers there at the moment. or if you want to come on your own, that's great too. I have Bunny Hop, The Overnighter, and Champagne Cascade on tap here, all DIPA's. Maybe I should give you some growlers to take back to the tent.

Whatever works for you. Would be good. Email me when you have an idea when you might be around. We're both working, I get home at 4.30 and my wife at 5.

This Place might be a good place to camp if you have kids. pool and activities etc. We actually took our kids camping there a couple of times, even though it is just down the road (half way between Wolfville and Aylesford). They sell firewood and you can have your own camp fire, showers there, shop, indoor games room. Noisy teenagers around though after dark though, but maybe that's normal for camp sites. Maybe you have a place figured out already.

...Oh, just had another thought. I work right by Paddys, I can knock off early, around 3.30 if that works better. Might be fun to bail out of the office and sit outside Paddys on the Main street with a beer.



Mark

[CartoonCod]

Looks like I'll be heading down to Clare this weekend with my family and passing through the valley (probably Friday and again on Sunday). Let me know if you want to meet up. I've only got a Mild bottled currently but will be happy to share some!

Adam

[GuingesRock]

Yes thanks, that would be great, I sent you a pm with my cell# (and Trevor). Would be great to try your beer and meet another person from the club.
Mark

Maybe I should host an afternoon Wolfville beer exchange meeting sometime. It’s a nice town. Perhaps in a couple of months when I’ve had a chance to stock up on some beers. I'm currently determined to get this real ale thing going, so I’ll see how that turns out. Hoptoberfest is coming along soon also. People try each other beers there, right? I've never been before.

[GuingesRock]

I’ve been thinking about the “drinkability” thing. It depends on the person who is drinking it. My Champagne Cascade is a very pale colour and it’s late hopped with lots of Cascade leaf with Pilsen as the malt. Most people who come, drink lots of it with glee, and we can too (wife and I) but it’s not our favorite…the favorite would be a heavily FWH and Mash hopped Styrian Golding beer with Marris Otter, and we can drink that all evening, but people have said it’s too bitter and too hoppy.

I don’t think the beer should be drinkable by the majority though as I’d end up brewing Coors Light or something. I think it’s best to have a couple of beers to suit different tastes, providing they suit your own too.

The other thing is personal taste. I don’t like sweet or malty beers on the whole…I think my wife would like a bit more malt character sometimes though.

Then there is another thing. I love a glass of dry hopped beer. I had Nash’s Fathom…Awesome beer, with huge aroma. It smelt like a bowel of tangerines or something. I enjoyed the glass very much, but could I drink glass after glass of it? I don’t know. I’ll have to try it sometime...and I probably will, and probably enjoy the whole evening.

I had a Randall and maybe that put me off dry hopping my beer, although I used to love a glass of it. Drinking dry hopped beer might be akin to drinking a fine glass of port before supper, but you couldn’t drink port all evening.

I think I’m speaking from inexperience though, as I have only really had a dozen glasses of heavily dry hopped beers in my lifetime, but to present a heavily dry hopped beer to a guest would quickly sort the men out from the boys. I’m a boy, or maybe a teenager when it comes to dry hopping just now.

Don’t know why I wrote all that really. Care to learn me sumpin LiverDance

I suppose what I don't know is, can you "session" with a heavily dry hopped beer? or is it comparable to the difference between drinking a full bodied high ABV beer and a session beer, and how does that tie in with drinkability.

[chalmers]

Just a note: most of the beers on tap at Port Pub are low in diacetyl (lucky guy!), but the cans that make it to Halifax are hit and miss (so much so that I won't buy them anymore). Bottles of Picaroons are subject to diacetyl too, if you can find some.

[GuingesRock]

Hi Trevor (jtmwhyte). Thanks for dropping by the office today and chatting beer. It was great to meet you. I wanted to keep talking beer but you know….

I thought I would post you an amateur review of the beer you dropped off. Good thing it was only 4% as I have drunk most of it. With both beers I definitely noticed a lower alcohol presence and I think I missed that, but it’s only because I’ve been brewing the imperials and got used to them.

Do you want the good news first or the bad news….well the bad news is I’ve drunk all the IPA and there is none left. The good news is I have some of the smoky one left.

First the Smoked Irish Red with 20% beechwood smoked barley with caramel 60 and caramel 30 with MO: I usually don’t like smoked anything but I drank a glass of it and that’s a good sign. We found it smooth drinking. From my wife…”the smoke flavour is definitely there but does not overwhelm. The smoke flavour draws you back to have a little more. It’s actually balanced with the rest of the beer. The smoke doesn’t somehow takeover the rest of the beer, and that’s very odd”.

Now the 4% session IPA which was my tipple. Late hopped with Cascade and Simcoe, and pale ale as the malt. Wife’s comment “subtle hops, not in your face, but definitely present!” she really seemed to like it as well, and she liked the "nice bitter". My comments: I drank both bottles and kept it away from my wife after she’d had her taste. It definitely had the drinkability factor for me. I loved the hop flavours and definitely got the grapefruit taste. Had about the same aroma as my beers, and I think heavily dry hopped beers have the highest aroma, but personally, although I enjoy a glass of heavy dry hop beer, I can’t drink glass after glass. I could your IPA though, and I'd love some more of that if you are passing by this way again.

I had a dodgy bottle opener, and by the time I got the lids off they had both spilled on the counter, so the carbonation was more then adequate.

Cheers, and great to meet you today. I learnt a lot from the discussion and from trying your beers.

Feel free to tear my beers apart on here, but don’t forget, I only have just under a year of brewing under my belt. I think it is useful to do reviews on the forum, as everyone can learn, and it seems more sociable, which is what this site seems to be all about. Hope you didn’t mind me doing that.

[jtmwhyte]

Mark,

I'm glad you enjoyed them both in their own way. I have absolutely no problem with the public forum of discussion and I also wish I could have spent some more time up that way. We just got home about an hour ago, so I haven't had a chance to drink either of yours yet but "The Overnighter" is on deck first. I'll probably wait until tomorrow to drink the "Champagne Cascade" as I would likely be ripped by the time I drank both given my poor dietary choices over two days camping and the long drive home.

Next time I'm down I'll also try to bring more variety and maybe fill my growlers from Uncle Leo's. I'll report back on the beers in this thread.

Trevor

[jtmwhyte]

Alright, first up was "The Overnighter"

The Pour: My immediate impression upon pouring was the lack of overpowering hop aroma that comes with most IIPAs, but I suppose that's to be expected with any FWH only brew. Fairly clear (but that never bothers me if it's not, I drink for the taste).

Taste: Surprising. The more I drink it, the more I think it has a Scotch Ale thing going on. The bitterness is very smooth, and kinda catches up with you a few seconds after you drink. Very full flavour; I like these Styrian Goldings.

Points to Ponder: Did this beer attenuate fully? What temperature did you ferment at? It seems to be very sweet (my wife agreed that it had a "butterscotch" flavour, which points to diacetyl). If I were brewing it I'd do 1/2# FWH and 1/2# at 5 min as opposed to 1# FWH (this is a personal preference as I like big aroma).

Verdict: I personally enjoyed it very much as it is nothing like anything I've had from other brewers, which really is why we brew, right?. If you consider diacetyl a flaw (which again, I don't necessarily) you may want to look into that. All in all an excellent beer which I'd not change a thing about unless you prefer more hop aroma (as I do).

I hope this is okay

[GuingesRock]

Perfect!!! You have just ensured a regular supply of my beer for analysis!

I don't like that sweetness either. I think it attenuated fully. It was supposed to be 8.5% and it turned out at 9.65%. I think the sweetness comes from the overnight mashing. I’m moving away from that with “The Siesta” which is almost exactly the same as the Overnighter, but has a 90 min early afternoon nap instead of overnight. I think the overnight mashing leaves a non-fermentable sugar of some kind in the beer…maybe maltotriose or something. If the Siesta is sweet, I'll revisit the attenuation thing.

Fermenting room runs between 22 and 25C in the summer. It’s US-05. Is that the problem with the diacetyl, or I wonder if it might be the overnight mashing again?

I did notice the lack of aroma compared to Nash’s Fathom beer (Overnighter = way less), but my sister in law, with the sommelier training, thought it had a great aroma, but I never noticed much of an aroma either. I don’t notice much with the late hopped Champagne Cascade either, but I’d be interested to hear if you find an improvement in that over the overnight mash hopped + FWH “Overnighter”. I think that following your suggestions, I may add some flameout or 5 min hops, and see how the aroma is then.

I’d like you to try my real ale efforts next time you are up.

I like Styrian Goldings too.

Thanks very much for the helpful review.

[GuingesRock]

Siesta is nice but it has the same slight sweetness, not extreme but more than I would like. Where am I going wrong? Am I trying to push the yeast too far?

It’s 10 gal with 27.5lbs MO (half a bag), 3 sachets of US-05, 1 servomyces yeast nutrient. 1 lb of Styrian goldings in the mash and another 1 lb in FWH. OG 1.073, FG 1.010, ABV 8.3%. Mash and boil both 90 minutes. Whisked heavily half an hour after pitching to aerate. Fermented it for 1 week and then left it in the keg at fermentation temp for another week.

Thanks in advance if anyone can sort this out for me. It’s ticking me off a bit and I want to make it again tomorrow and put it through the real ale thing. I like it, but I would like it more, if it was a bit dryer.

[mr x]

That's a heavy duty beer to be running on a handpump. At .010, I don't see how that is sweet....