Dry yeasts and Sour or Tart "Twang"

[KLecky]

I am wondering if anyone on this forum has experienced sour or tart "twang" like tastes when using dry yeasts. They don't appear to be esters - its seems much "deeper" than that in taste. But no sour smell really. I have brewed 5 batches with dry yeast and all of them have had this slight off taste, to varying degrees. The yeast strains are s-04 and us-05.

I know the off taste is not an infection because I had one batch get an infection and that lactic acid sourness is much more powerful and revolting. This batch also had the classic ring around the neck. I believe I have traced the sour of the infection to my bottling method for that batch - a racking cane and bottle filler which were not effectively sanitized apparently (maybe something to do with the sticker residue on the filler - anyway...) - on a side note I have decided to switch to a simper method - a tube and siphon clamp, with a turkey baster to get the flow started - since these are easier to sanitize.

People on the following forums have found issues as well, but I wondered if anyone here knows anything about it or has had the problem?
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/s-04-s ... te-374520/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/ ... ic=13066.0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And if you do a google search you can find many other discussions.

I have decided to switch to liquid yeast. Any brewers in PEI who have no problems with dry yeast should reply or message me as I have a few packages I will give you (s-04, nottingham, and I may have a few more too)

[RubberToe]

Hi Ken, I've never experienced any twang like you mention with dry yeast. Depending on the yeast and fermentation conditions you can get lots of different off flavours but it doesn't matter if it's dry vs liquid yeast.

Are you brewing with extract or all grain? I've experienced a twang of sorts from LME before.

-Rob

[mr x]

I've never had an issue with twang from - 05. Ever.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4

[LeafMan66_67]

I've never had an issue with twang from - 05. Ever.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4

Same here - it's my "go to" Yeast.

[Araxi]

I agree with X and Rob, I have used a lot of 04 and 05 and never had any issues.

[berley]

I've never had an issue with twang from - 05. Ever.

Same here.

[dean2k]

I agree with X and Rob, I have used a lot of 04 and 05 and never had any issues.

Ditto

[GuingesRock]

Is it possible you just don't like the taste of them? Me and 04 don't get along.

So many things affect flavour though. Have you tried looking at the BJCP faults for clues: http://www.bjcp.org/docs/Beer_faults.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (it does say "check yeast strain" as one option under Sour/Acidic Lactic acid, citric acid, sharp, clean sourness)

[adams81]

Can't say I've ever noticed any flavour like that from dry yeast, though I'd describe most extract beers I've tasted the same way.

Maybe a bad shipment to your LHBS, or old yeast?

[KLecky]

Is it possible you just don't like the taste of them? Me and 04 don't get along.

So many things affect flavour though. Have you tried looking at the BJCP faults for clues: http://www.bjcp.org/docs/Beer_faults.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (it does say "check yeast strain" as one option under Sour/Acidic Lactic acid, citric acid, sharp, clean sourness)

Thanks for that link. I have the BJCP style guide so that one you provided is a great one to add... The best batch (least sour) I have made was a simple extract batch, with steeped specialty grains. The others have been all grain BIAB. All of them have been fermented at about 14-16 celcius room temp in food safe plastic and I have used unadjusted Ch'town water. They seemed to develop the off flavour after bottling.

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I found this posting here: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... =firefox-a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnonymousNovember 29, 2013 at 9:56 AM
I have been a homebrewer for 7 years. I've made 152 batches of ales & lagers of nearly all varieties. Most have turned out great. However, the batches that turned out bad were really bad (Terrible, unbearable medicinal "Band-Aid" off-flavors).
I have double cleaned, sanitized, boiled, used various water sources, adjusted fermentation temperatures, etc., etc. I closely monitored everything I did and kept meticulous records to help me isolate the medicinal off flavor problem.
I finally stepped back and looked at the data for 152 batches as a whole and the answer to me is overwhelmingly obvious. Here are the numbers:

93 Lagers - All strains of lager yeast used (Dry & Liquid) - BAD BATCHES (1)
19 Ales - Made with S-05 Dry Ale Yeast - BAD BATCHES (0)
13 Ales - Made with Nottingham/Danstar Ale Yeast - BAD BATCHES (1)
4 Ales - Made with Mr. Beer Ale Yeast (Strain??) - BAD BATCHES (0)
23 Ales - Made with S-04 Dry Ale Yeast - BAD BATCHES (16) (All were dumped!)(What a waste!)

I think this speaks loud and clear...Judge for yourself !
For me, I no longer use S-04 yeast in anything.

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I wonder about water Ph during mashing and fermentation temp control. Maybe something I do - some factor in my equation - plus the yeast. I know in one batch I overpitched and that definitely increased the off taste - and so this does seem to suggest its connected with the yeast.

For my current batch which has just finished fermenting, I have adjusted the water and monitored fermentation temperature and used Wyeast 1968 rather than 04.

[Ladd]

Are you doing anything about the chlorine in the water before brewing with it?

[Araxi]

I think that poster you linked to has some other issues not his yeast. There are many micro breweries that use the Safale yeasts daily without issue. Be careful with those brewing forums as a lot of the info is bad (except here of course) . I think if you are getting consistently poor results especially the band aid (phenolic) off flavour you are looking in the wrong direction. Years ago I had a few batches with that problem and it was a dirty bulk head on my boil kettle.

[KLecky]

Yes I use campden tabs for the chlorine and the other chloro whatever it is.

Thanks for your posts. I just bottled a batch today that used liquid yeast (stout) and so in a week or two I'll try one and see. Tasted fine at bottling (though the others did too)...

[mr x]

I totally agree with Araxi. If your beer is tasting fine at bottling, I really doubt the yeast is the issue, not that I thought that it was anyway. Keep looking for other sources. Are you an extract brewer?

[KLecky]

I tried that batch I brewed with Wyeast 1968 and it is not sour so I am very happy. The only real change was - other than going from s04 to the WY1968 of course, was modifying the water profile. I wonder if the low level of calcium (30) in Ch'town water could have made the yeast overworked so something, or perhaps the pH was way too high. I don't know - I'm just speculating - maybe in the future I will give the dry yeast another go and see what happens.