Competition Questions

[RubberToe]

If you have a beer that you are not sure of the best class fit, is it frowned upon to enter it twice in one competition but in two different classes?

I think most competitions allow you to enter the same beer in different classes but NOT in different subclasses of the same class. Read the fine print / rules of each competition just in case.

[RubberToe]

Yikes. Would have cost me $35+ to send 3 day express to SK. Going to take chances with storm and regular shipping. Got the box and bubble wrap as small as my paranoia would allow. What's everyone's packaging tricks?

I do FedEx 3 day express saver and like it. Cheaper than overnight. Once it got there in one day anyways, lol.

I get dollar store bubble wrap, some news paper, packing tape, extra cardboard. I line the sides and bottom of the box with bubble wrap and another layer of cardboard. I then place in a blue recycle bag or garbage bag in case any bottles break or freeze and pop open.

I cut my bubble wrap into about 12" lengths, one for each bottle. Make sure your bottles have the tags on them as per the individual competition rules. Bottles themselves unlabeled, caps blacked out. I wrap each bottle with a piece of bubble wrap, letting it hang over the top and bottom (may fold it on the bottom when placing in the bottles). IIRC I don't tape the wrap, don't want it to be a pain for the comp organizers. I place each bottle standing up in the box (bag), filling the box with my entries in this way. I'll place my entry forms, cheque, etc, in a zip lock bag on top. BTW I've also been known to place each bottle tag in a small zip lock bag before elasicing it to the bottle.

I then tie or tape the bag shut and fill in all open areas, corners, and top with crumpled news paper. Make sure the contents can not shift. Close and tape shut the box. Bob's your uncle.

That's my process, which may be overkill. I don't want my hard work going to waste because the box fell during shipping. Also note that some competitions limit entries to 12 per box or something like that.

[dean2k]

I do FedEx 3 day express saver and like it. Cheaper than overnight. Once it got there in one day anyways, lol.

If I had more time and no Snowpocalpyse, I would have shopped around for shipping. Sackville NB has a self-serve fed ex drop box but I'll have to research if you can do express saver that way.

Cheers.

PS ... I may have used an entire Dollar Store $1.25 roll of 30" bubble wrap for each bottle.

[RubberToe]

PS ... I may have used an entire Dollar Store $1.25 roll of 30" bubble wrap for each bottle.

Lol, just wrap the bubble wrap with paper and call it a day!

[GuingesRock]

What would be the difference between and award-winning IPA and an award-winning APA? Is it possible the same beer could win both classes?

Thanks!

[GAM]

Mostly the type of hops IMO.

Sandy

[gm-]

Lower ABV and IBUs in the APA, although they can overlap a bit.

From BJCP
APA:
Vital Statistics: OG: 1.045 – 1.060
IBUs: 30 – 45 FG: 1.010 – 1.015
SRM: 5 – 14 ABV: 4.5 – 6.2%

IPA:
Vital Statistics: OG: 1.056 – 1.075
IBUs: 40 – 70 FG: 1.010 – 1.018
SRM: 6 – 15 ABV: 5.5 – 7.5%

[LiverDance]

What would be the difference between and award-winning IPA and an award-winning APA? Is it possible the same beer could win both classes?

Thanks!

Technically yes, if you look at gm's BJCP stats they do overlap so it is possible to win both.

[Tim Gregory]

There's usually a rule that you can't enter the same beer in two categories though, so you have to make a choice when you enter (or hope you don't get caught).

[GuingesRock]

so you have to make a choice when you enter (or hope you don't get caught).

What would be your deciding factors?

My beers lately aren't high alcohol and I aim for lots of fruity hop flavour and aroma with lower end bitterness and background malt profile only, lighter colour, lightly dry hopped, peachy conan yeast esters. Maybe I should stick to the APA class, or would there be a better class for such a beer?

Also I had some left over PET bottles of beer that I sent to ALES, I tasted them last week and they had all gone south with oxidative 0ff-flavours. Embarrassing. I had beer gunned from kegs into PET bottles. I think my sanitation was strict. The stuff in the kegs was still good. I think it was the PET bottles being permeable to O2. Is that a likely explanation? The bottles were kept in the fridge.

[chalmers]

From your description, I'd enter them in APA category. Lower end bitterness will (rightly or wrongly) be lost in IPA category.

How long ago did you bottle the beers? I feel like the oxygen permeability of PET isn't high enough that it would oxidize within a month or two. When you bottled, did you do so with the bottles dry? Did you allow some foam to creep up and spill out a bit, so you were capping on foam? What sanitizing regime did you use? How was the carbonation level of the beer?

[GuingesRock]

How long ago did you bottle the beers? I feel like the oxygen permeability of PET isn't high enough that it would oxidize within a month or two. When you bottled, did you do so with the bottles dry? Did you allow some foam to creep up and spill out a bit, so you were capping on foam? What sanitizing regime did you use? How was the carbonation level of the beer?

Thanks, bottled 2 - 3months ago. Had the bottles and caps in a bucket of starsan and drained each one just before filling it so the bottles were wet. The shaft of the beer gun was put in another bucket of starsan between each filling. Definately overflowed and capped on foam. Carbonation was low end.

Thanks for the help. I'd like to get to the bottom of this. I think I will be moving to glass though.

[chalmers]

Your bottling technique sounds spot on to me. I believe Tony bottles in PET, and they are sold in decent quantity at NG, so I'm not that we can blame the bottles. Genuine mystery to me, sadly.

[Jayme]

I was having issues of lower carbonation in bottles vs. beer on draft when I first got my beer gun. I did a bit of reading (thought it was in the manual, but I don't see it at a glance) and read somewhere that the night before bottling, you should increase the pressure of the beer 2~5psi to slightly over-carbonate which will cancel out the slight drop in carbonation when bottling.

I suspect this and not using PET is the issue, though it could be a combination of the two.

[GuingesRock]

I'm suspicious:

PET and Oxygen Permeability

PET bottles (sometimes called PETE bottles, and bearing the #1 recycling code) are made from polyethylene terephthalate. There are lots of different variants of PET bottles. For this article, I’ll limit the discussion solely to the “regular,” thin-walled soda bottles. As I mentioned, one reason to use PET bottles for soda is the ability of PET containers to retain carbon dioxide (CO2). However, the permeability of PET with regards to oxygen is a concern of brewers. Keeping CO2 in is a necessary feature of a beer bottle, but keeping oxygen (O2) out is also important. If oxygen can enter the bottle, the beer will go stale faster. And this is why you don’t see commercial beer packaged in “ordinary,” thin-walled PET bottles — they are permeable to oxygen. (There are thicker bottles and specialty bottles that use a layer of polyvinyl alcohol between layers of PET to lower oxygen permeability.) http://beerandwinejournal.com/pet-bottles/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[chalmers]

Thanks for looking into this. The key is that last line in your quote. Any of the PET bottles I've seen for homebrew have been the thick ones. Might be worth asking NG (I assume you bought them there) for the supplier name, and do a check.

That might explain why those two pop-bottles of Bushwakkers I brought to the last Brewnosers meeting were off. They appeared to be the thin-walled ones, probably only good for a couple of weeks.

[Tony L]

Also remember colour has an effect on hop stability the same as it do in glass. Brown being preferable to weed out the spectrum of light that affects the hops in beer.

Having said that, I have sent in beer to comps using brown PET bottles I got at my LHBS and never had any issues with it. The other thing is are you purging the head space in the bottle before sealing the cap before and after filling?

[Jayme]

Although it's terrible beer, Steelback used to (maybe still does??) in green PET bottles. It was always plenty carbonated! And awful...

[gm-]

Breweries in Europe also do this quite a bit, you can buy both Tuborg and Carslberg in 330ml plastic bottles in Denmark, and in eastern europe it is pretty common to see beer sold in 1L or 1.5L plastic bottles. Those are all horrible beers, so I am not sure what off flavours are result of the packaging, seem to taste similarly bad in cans/glass.

[GuingesRock]

I made a Blonde, "Poolside Blonde". It has a decent malt background with pilsner and 8.7% dark munich, west Yorkshire ale yeast (Wyeast 1649). 4.6% ABV and Galaxy hops. It's loaded with fruity aroma and flavour, mostly peach/apricot. You can smell it at arms length. I think it's a beautiful beer but I'm worried it might be too "hoppy" for a blonde in terms of fruity flavours and aromas. It's hardly bitter at all really (19 IBU) and is very drinkable, even for people who don't like real beer. Is there a better class? I want to send it in. Colour 8.5 EBC (4.3 SRM), OG 1.050.

Thanks

Edit: This beer ended up getting gold in the end as a blonde ale in the M.A.L.T competition in Montreal.

[redoubt]

Mark,

Reading the BJCP style guidelines for the Blonde Ale, it sounds like you'd be alright for the category, and it doesn't look like there'd be a better place for it from what I can tell. Perhaps with the title, specify that's it's a hoppy version, so the judges know it was your intention to have that much hop flavour and aroma. "Poolside Blonde - Hoppy Blonde Ale".

-Keely.

[GuingesRock]

Thanks for the help Keely.

Peachy Blonde Ale.

[chalmers]

Just an FYI, at BJCP comps, the judges will not see a name for the beer, only a randomized designation (usually a number). The organizer is the one who separates the bottles from entry sheets, and assigns the numbers, and he or she will not be judging, to remove any chance (or perception) of playing favourites.

In categories where special ingredients or techniques may be used, those details are available to the judges, but again, in a way that does not reveal details of the brewer's identity.

[CartoonCod]

You would probably get dinged for the hops in the Blonde Ale category. I think it would best fit in American pale ale, however, having said that, it sounds like it lacks the bitterness to be a good example of the style, based on what you wrote. Here is the big philosophical question, do you brew to win competitions or do you brew to enjoy your own beer? I think they can overlap, but the current version of the guidelines are limiting in certain areas.

On a side note, I think the BJCP higher ups are working on revising the style guidelines to be released sometime this year.

On another side note, there are groups such as the Maltose Falcons out of California that have their own guidelines: http://www.maltosefalcons.com/sites/def ... elines.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[chalmers]

As for this beer in particular, big hop aroma is a bit more than what the Blonde style calls for, but the IBUs are a bit lower than the APA style, which would be my second recommendation. Tough call!