Fake lagers?

[jason.loxton]

Can't brew until at least next weekend, so timeline is too short for a Christmas lager. Looks like my brother's coming for Christmas, and his favourite is Sam Adams Boston Lager. Going to make an ale facsimile, and wondering about yeast. I am a big fan of S-04 fermented cold for neutral fermentations, and prefer it to S-05, which I find often throws peachy/apricot esters, even at lower temps. Lallemend claims that Nottingham fermented cold is a reasonable fake lager yeast. Anyone ever tried it? If so, apart from adjusting for pitching rates, did you find that it required an extended maturation to deal with various precursors or was it still ale-ish quick in terms of turn around time?

"The recommended fermentation temperature range of this strain is 14° to 21°C (57° to 70°F) with good tolerance to low fermentation temperatures (12°C/54°F) that allow this strain to be used in lager-style beer...Lager-style beer has been brewed with Nottingham, however low fermentation temperature requires adaptation of the pitching rate to ensure proper attenuation." http://www.danstaryeast.com/products/no ... beer-yeast" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[jtmwhyte]

Can't brew until at least next weekend, so timeline is too short for a Christmas lager. Looks like my brother's coming for Christmas, and his favourite is Sam Adams Boston Lager. Going to make an ale facsimile, and wondering about yeast. I am a big fan of S-04 fermented cold for neutral fermentations, and prefer it to S-05, which I find often throws peachy/apricot esters, even at lower temps. Lallemend claims that Nottingham fermented cold is a reasonable fake lager yeast. Anyone ever tried it? If so, apart from adjusting for pitching rates, did you find that it required an extended maturation to deal with various precursors or was it still ale-ish quick in terms of turn around time?

"The recommended fermentation temperature range of this strain is 14° to 21°C (57° to 70°F) with good tolerance to low fermentation temperatures (12°C/54°F) that allow this strain to be used in lager-style beer...Lager-style beer has been brewed with Nottingham, however low fermentation temperature requires adaptation of the pitching rate to ensure proper attenuation." http://www.danstaryeast.com/products/no ... beer-yeast" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have an "Everyday" Ale on tap now that I brewed with Notty at 15 Celsius and it is definitely "lager-like". It's not exactly the same as using lager yeast, but it's damn close.

[jason.loxton]

As an aside, anyone have any issues with Nottingham and hangovers? I know it is supposed to spit fusels at high temps. I've only ever used it twice, and you have the confounding variable of 'Par-TAY!!!' (copious amounts were consumed), but they followed both times with literally the worst hangovers in my life. I expect that it is just coincidence, but its made me a bit reluctant to use that yeast, despite having temp. control.

[GAM]

Califorina Common is my go to for beer like this.

Sandy

[GasMD30]

Califorina Common is my go to for beer like this.

Sandy

What yeast do you use for your California Common?

[Jimmy]

Califorina Common is my go to for beer like this.

Sandy

What yeast do you use for your California Common?

https://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_yeaststrai ... cfm?ID=131" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[gm-]

Kölsch yeast could also work well, although I've usually lagered mine for 1-2 weeks after fermentation has slowed down.

[Celiacbrew]

I have a jar of a harvested altbier yeast cake in my fridge from Tuesday. It's kind of like the Kolsh yeast. gm mentioned. It would give you a super clean ale ferment like a fruity lager yeast would. I didn't wash it so I wouldn't sit on it for long but you are welcome to it if it would help you out.

[jason.loxton]

Thanks Mike, that would be awesome, but sadly I am stuck up in Cape Breton. More just surveying for future reference. (I've got the full suite of dry yeasts in my fridge, which is why I was looking at options there.)

[KMcK]

White Labs' Mexican Lager yeast (WLP940 ) ferments surprisingly fast for a lager. It could be ready in time for Christmas.

[jason.loxton]

I wrote the Lellemand/Danstar email for technical questions. Below is my email and the response.

___________________________

Dr. Fischborn:

I am hoping that you can provide some advice in adapting Nottingham to low temperature fermentation. The Lellemand website advises raising the pitching rate, but gives no specifics. When using Nottingham in low temperature fermentations, do you advise following the procedures normally used in lager production, e.g., similar pitching rates to lager yeasts, diacetyl rest, etc.? What is the expected fermentation/conditioning timeline, i.e., should one expect a time saving over actual lager yeasts, or is the total time required to deal with esters and precursors, etc., similar to using a lager strain?

Your help is appreciated!

Jason Loxton

_________________________________

Hello Mr. Loxton,

At our recommended pitching rate for lager yeast of 200 g/hl Nottingham will be faster than our Diamond Lager yeast because we have higher viable cell numbers per gram for Nottingham. I know of breweries use the recommended ale yeast pitching rate of 100 g/hl and the fermentation is finished within 7 days at 9-10 ºC. As for diacetyl rest there is no significant difference.

Regards

Tobias

[GasMD30]

That's awesome he replied with that information!

[Tony L]

Hmmm... perhaps I can use this when I make my next batch of Coors lite clone


Or I can just do it the way I always have...

[McGruff]

I second the WLP940. Very fast and attenuates well. I got 80%.

[RubberToe]

Kölsch yeast could also work well, although I've usually lagered mine for 1-2 weeks after fermentation has slowed down.

I came here to suggest this. My altbier using WLP029 was clean with 2 weeks in the fermenter, 1 week of crash / keg / carb. Another couple weeks cold conditioning in the keg it was even cleaner and very lager like.

I have some yeast saved and will make another soon. Also looking forward to trying the K-97 German ale yeast.

[jtmwhyte]

Kölsch yeast could also work well, although I've usually lagered mine for 1-2 weeks after fermentation has slowed down.

I came here to suggest this. My altbier using WLP029 was clean with 2 weeks in the fermenter, 1 week of crash / keg / carb. Another couple weeks cold conditioning in the keg it was even cleaner and very lager like.

I have some yeast saved and will make another soon. Also looking forward to trying the K-97 German ale yeast.

I'll be trying the k97 in a Bavarian IPA with Mandarina Bavaria hops, my house alt recipe and then in a kölsch in a spilt batch with WLP029

[mumblecrunch]

I had excellent luck with WLP080 (Cream Ale Blend) on this Fizzy Yellow Beer. That said, I did chill the carboy for a couple weeks after after FG was reached (1-2 weeks in primary if I remember right). Cleaned up really nicely.

My brother-in-law the macro drinker is extremely eager for me to brew a batch of this for him.

[McGruff]

I got a lot of sulphur with WLP080 last year. Yes, it did clean up and the beer was good. It did take 2-3 weeks to clean up though. Hard to wait in July though.