Worm Chiller

[GuingesRock]

Circulating wort during cooling is critical to efficient cooling for immersion chillers.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4

I wonder if there is a little electrical propeller or similar idea that could be installed in the pot to produce a current in the wort and facilitate cooling by the imersion chiller. I'm interested because I have an immersion chiller built into my pot. It takes longer to cool and uses more water because it is fixed to the pot and can't be jiggled. It does cool in a closed system (the lid is on the pot) however, which is an advantage for avoiding infection, and the other reason I did that, is because I ferment in the same pot (pitch the yeast and put the lid back on) and I use the coil for very effective fermentation temperature control.

Even a contraption that would make the pot vibrate and cause ripples inside ...would that work?

Any ideas?

Some kind of a stirring paddle installed in the lid maybe?

[GAM]

I'm thinking paint stirrer but food grade.

Sandy

[HoweFox]

Google "whirlpool chiller". For example: http://www.mrmalty.com/chiller.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I think this is the most/widely used method if you don't like moving it manually (or can't move the IC for some reason).

As for installing something in the pot, maybe you could use a stir plate? If you could get the pot easily over the stir plate and then drop the magnet stir bar in the wort it might work...however, the pot is SS so maybe not...and also you would have to move a pot of hot wort which is nice to avoid.

[dexter]

I used to use a bastardized version of the whirlpool chiller, its was just my pump and line with a with a piece of copper bent into something like an s shape that dropped in the middle of the immersion chiller.

[gm-]

Circulating wort during cooling is critical to efficient cooling for immersion chillers.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4

I wonder if there is a little electrical propeller or similar idea that could be installed in the pot to produce a current in the wort and facilitate cooling by the imersion chiller. I'm interested because I have an immersion chiller built into my pot. It takes longer to cool and uses more water because it is fixed to the pot and can't be jiggled. It does cool in a closed system (the lid is on the pot) however, which is an advantage for avoiding infection, and the other reason I did that, is because I ferment in the same pot (pitch the yeast and put the lid back on) and I use the coil for very effective fermentation temperature control.

Even a contraption that would make the pot vibrate and cause ripples inside ...would that work?

Any ideas?

Some kind of a stirring paddle installed in the lid maybe?

[blacktip]

With the stirrer(that's a word, right?) you could go right to aeration after you hit your cooling target temp.

[GAM]

I just use my pump, put it on to get boiling liquid through it and turn on the IC and run till i don't see a temp drop. I do ferment in Stainless steel so I move my pump to the fermenter and if I need to I wait till the temp drops some more.

Sandy

[GuingesRock]

Thanks for all the ideas.

Google "whirlpool chiller". For example: http://www.mrmalty.com/chiller.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I think this is the most/widely used method if you don't like moving it manually (or can't move the IC for some reason).

As for installing something in the pot, maybe you could use a stir plate? If you could get the pot easily over the stir plate and then drop the magnet stir bar in the wort it might work...however, the pot is SS so maybe not...and also you would have to move a pot of hot wort which is nice to avoid.

HoweFox, that's a good idea in that article on whirlpool chilling: http://www.mrmalty.com/chiller.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Thanks! I hadn't read about that before. Looks like it might be the best chilling option for home brewers. According to the article ...whirlpool chilling produces more rapid cooling than a counter flow chiller, with less DMS and retention of more volatiles.

I'm hoping to be able to achieve the same effect in the pot though, without pumps and tubing. There must be a good way of doing that.

[GuingesRock]

With the stirrer(that's a word, right?) you could go right to aeration after you hit your cooling target temp.

That's a good idea as well. You could aerate as you cooled, but the O2 would probably only start dissolving significantly as the wort became cool. Perhaps the paint stirrer is the thing.

Sandy ...it sounds like you are doing a form of whirlpool chilling?

[blacktip]

Aeration before cooling leads to oxidization, so you'll want to hold off until you've hit your temperature. Well, according to "How to Brew" anyhow...

[GuingesRock]

Aeration before cooling leads to oxidization, so you'll want to hold off until you've hit your temperature. Well, according to "How to Brew" anyhow...

I thought Palmers notion of "hot side aeration" (problems of) had been thrown out ...correct me if I'm wrong.

[Araxi]

It was actually Charles Bamforth that claimed that hot side aeration was a myth. He teaches brewing at UCDavis. He is one of my favourite authorities on brewing.
Here is a link to the Brew Strong episode where they discuss this
http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/475" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[blacktip]

Awesome link Araxi, all the things that I had found were 2002 era, until I remembered how to Google properly. (2012..2013 will constrain the dates that Google searches)

[adams81]

I've used a paint stirrer in wort to whirlpool. With an 18v drill it was able to create a strong whirlpool in about 6g. The whirlpool was easily slowed by the IC once the stirrer is removed, so for cooling I think that jiggling the IC is a better option. Holding a drill over a pot for 15 min is not that fun!

Worked great for pulling solids to the center of the pot though. Also keep in mind that the larger stirrers are 1/2". I was using the smallest one from Home depot, one gallon I think.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk

[blacktip]

It was actually Charles Bamforth that claimed that hot side aeration was a myth. He teaches brewing at UCDavis. He is one of my favourite authorities on brewing.
Here is a link to the Brew Strong episode where they discuss this
http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/475" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Any chance you downloaded that episode? The link is quite dead

[Araxi]

I believe you can still get it by subscribing to the podcast in ITunes.

[GuingesRock]

Circulating wort during cooling is critical to efficient cooling for immersion chillers.

I wonder if there is a little electrical propeller or similar idea that could be installed in the pot to produce a current in the wort and facilitate cooling by the imersion chiller.

Even a contraption that would make the pot vibrate and cause ripples inside ...would that work?

Any ideas?

Some kind of a stirring paddle installed in the lid maybe?

Maybe this high temperature, submersible 6V food grade pump could be used to produce a whirlpool around the immersion chiller: http://www.lightobject.com/High-tempera ... -P510.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[chalmers]

It was actually Charles Bamforth that claimed that hot side aeration was a myth. He teaches brewing at UCDavis. He is one of my favourite authorities on brewing.
Here is a link to the Brew Strong episode where they discuss this
http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/475" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Any chance you downloaded that episode? The link is quite dead

Strange, it just worked for me. They do limit IP addresses to the amount of bandwidth you can download in a 24hr period, maybe you went over?

Try that link again, or here is the direct link to the MP3.
http://s125483039.onlinehome.us/archive ... -26-09.mp3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[blacktip]

I was able to pull down a copy yesterday. I have experience with the company hosting the file (1&1), and wasn't surprised to find out that something was broken there. cheers!

[Ladd]

I'm interested because I have an immersion chiller built into my pot. It takes longer to cool and uses more water because it is fixed to the pot and can't be jiggled. It does cool in a closed system (the lid is on the pot) however, which is an advantage for avoiding infection, and the other reason I did that, is because I ferment in the same pot (pitch the yeast and put the lid back on) and I use the coil for very effective fermentation temperature control.

Hey Mark, is your built in chiller copper? I vaguely remember you making it but with you mentioning that you ferment in your kettle as well I thought I would ask because I was listening to a brewstrong the other morning on my way to work (not sure exactly which one, I have them all burned on disks for my long drives to and from work) and Jamil and John were talking about how its not good to have copper in contact with fermenting beer. They were talking about how it will leach copper faster as the pH lowers with fermentation and can start to be toxic to the yeast, cause rapid staling of the beer and can even cause metal poising at higher levels; doubtful this would ever be the case when used at the home brew level but may warrant investigation. I started looking around a little more and am finding a lot of conflicting information with regards to it but just thought I would mention it in case you want to research into it. I did find this from a 2007 issue of BYO by JP, however it doesn't really go into great detail about copper and fermenting/fermented beer, it's more about staling:

"Copper is a problem post-fermentation because it catalyzes staling reactions, including the production of hydrogen peroxide and can oxidize the alcohols to aldehydes. Finished beer should not be stored in contact with copper, although serving beer with copper tubing in a jockey box should not be a problem, because of the short contact time immediately before serving. " ( http://byo.com/stories/item/1144-metall ... omebrewers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; )

Any thoughts from more experienced brewers?

Matt

[GuingesRock]

Thanks Matt, we did some research and there was quite a good discussion (including the copper issue) before I built this thing. Here: http://www.brewnosers.org/forums/viewto ... rol#p70929

[Ladd]

Thanks Matt, we did some research and there was quite a good discussion (including the copper issue) before I built this thing. Here: http://www.brewnosers.org/forums/viewto ... rol#p70929

I do remember that thread but dont remember reading the copper related discussion. It only really triggered when I saw your post in this thread right after listening to that episode of brew strong. Out of curiousity now that you have first hand experience, do you notice any difference with your beers in regards to staling since starting to use it?

Matt

[Tony L]

I used a 25 ft 3/8 inch dia copper chiller for a few years and to tell the truth It wasn't all that less efficient from the 50 ft one I'm using now. I stir my wort gently when cooling to keep the hot wort next to the coils, which makes a huge difference in time.

One time I used the hot waste water to fill my washer to do a load of laundry, but forgot about it until the basement floor flooded, so if you do anything like this make sure you don't forget like I did,

[GuingesRock]

Thanks Matt, we did some research and there was quite a good discussion (including the copper issue) before I built this thing. Here: http://www.brewnosers.org/forums/viewto ... rol#p70929

I do remember that thread but dont remember reading the copper related discussion. It only really triggered when I saw your post in this thread right after listening to that episode of brew strong. Out of curiousity now that you have first hand experience, do you notice any difference with your beers in regards to staling since starting to use it?

Matt

Matt, The answer is no.

Also looking at Jeff Pinhey’s score sheet (he's a national BJCP judge) for my by BS comp entry (which I was pleased to have). The only descriptor definition that was ticked was “Estery” and I think that’s from my keg conditioning and was intentional on my part. No faults were checked as being present.

But! I only ferment in the kettle for four days, which with US-05, is the active time during which I need to control temperature. Then I keg my beer for keg conditioning and leave the kegs in a room at 20C for 10 - 14 days before moving to cellar temperature.

[Ladd]

Good to know and glad it is working well for controlling your ferm. temps! Obviously that short contact time has no discernible effect. Thank for the update!