Be careful who you drink with!

[bluenose]

yeah, like you said, you were there and I wasn't so I don't have all the facts... I wasn't implying you should go partying with him this weekend, or ever again.

glad to hear you're ok and no one was seriously hurt

[Jayme]

yeah, like you said, you were there and I wasn't so I don't have all the facts... I wasn't implying you should go partying with him this weekend, or ever again.

Haha ok yes - I'm with you there!

[PEIBeerGuy]

Holy crap, what a tale! You're lucky things didn't get even worse!

I was going to say I never had such an experience, but that wouldn't be entirely true. My best bud in university tried to pound me to smithereens one night. Took two or three other guys to hold him back for what felt like hours. Even threw his brother down the stairs (light switch stuck into his back!) in an attempt to get back down at me. What happened? They had called a cab to go downtown. After a long wait, one cab showed up (all they called, apparently), and myself and my bud's brother were going to get left back, waiting for another one. As my bud was getting into the back seat, I went to punch him on the shoulder. I don't know what happened - the angle, or him turning, or what - but I hit him in the face instead. I saw him doubled over, blood coming out the bridge of his nose. I couldn't believe what I'd done! I broke his nose! Other guys took him to emerg to get it reset (it's fine now). He wasn't around the apartment the whole next day. I left him a note, but it was a couple days before I saw him - with two black/green eyes. I felt like such a tool. His Captain Morgan rum rage had him feeling a bit shamed, though, too... oddly, it hasn't come up in conversation much over the years!!

[Jayme]

That's pretty crazy too man! At least it was all a big mistake/misunderstanding. I'd call that one of those 1 in 10 situations mentioned earlier. Luckily you didn't get hurt and your buddy healed. Broken noses suck! I dove into the shallow end once and broke my nose - hurt a lot! Hopefully you guys were able to laugh it off and smooth things over. It was just horse play on your part after. Just gone horribly wrong!

[homebrewcrew]

Sounds like quite a time, buddy better watch what hes doing. A lot of people go downtown and act like that and get put in the hospital after they say the wrong thing to the wrong person. Hopefully he gets some help clearly has issues.

[Jayme]

So true. You know, another crazy thing about this situation I just thought of too is another one of the guys who was with us earlier in the night had just been hit by a drunk driver a week earlier and the whole incident was the hot topic of the evening. It was near the Ale House, car went right up on the sidewalk. My friend (not the one who clocked me with the helmet) rolled off the hood and wasn't hurt but they guy driving the car went off to jail. Luckily he was remorseful and didn't try to run away. But you would think after a story like that the guy from work would have taken something away from that. Guess not.

[homebrewcrew]

Yeah either this guy is an idiot or he mixed drugs and alcohol and did not know what he was doing. I would just talk to him at work and pray he doesn't come out with you again to drink.

[bluenose]

So true. You know, another crazy thing about this situation I just thought of too is another one of the guys who was with us earlier in the night had just been hit by a drunk driver a week earlier and the whole incident was the hot topic of the evening. It was near the Ale House, car went right up on the sidewalk. My friend (not the one who clocked me with the helmet) rolled off the hood and wasn't hurt but they guy driving the car went off to jail. Luckily he was remorseful and didn't try to run away. But you would think after a story like that the guy from work would have taken something away from that. Guess not.

that reminds me of the time a little guy tried to pick a fight with me and I told him I didn't want to fight him... well after he was shouting at me and finally shoved me, I dropped him like a sack of potatoes with one punch and walked away... he must've felt a little embarrassed because two blocks down the street he drove into me with his car from behind... There I am splayed on the hood of the car until it comes to a stop and I fly off and end up cutting my hand... I get up and run over to the drivers door and start pounding on it and yelling at him to get out... for some reason he decides to stay in the car... he must've thought I was the T1000 by this point

[bluenose]

or he mixed drugs and alcohol

that's not allowed?

[Jayme]

that reminds me of the time a little guy tried to pick a fight with me and I told him I didn't want to fight him... well after he was shouting at me and finally shoved me, I dropped him like a sack of potatoes with one punch and walked away... he must've felt a little embarrassed because two blocks down the street he drove into me with his car from behind... There I am splayed on the hood of the car until it comes to a stop and I fly off and end up cutting my hand... I get up and run over to the drivers door and start pounding on it and yelling at him to get out... for some reason he decides to stay in the car... he must've thought I was the T1000 by this point

That's fucked. How did it play out in the end?

[PEIBeerGuy]

he must've thought I was the T1000 by this point

Classic.

[bluenose]

the police found him, but when it went to court he hired Joel Pink and got off with the equivalent of a speeding ticket

[Jayme]

There should be a special place in hell for lawyers like that...

[derek]

There should be a special place in hell for lawyers like that...

A more special place than the rest of the lawyers go?

I've actually had beers with Joel.

[chalmers]

There should be a special place in hell for lawyers like that...

A more special place than the rest of the lawyers go?

I've actually had beers with Joel.

Meh, even lawyers have to drink.

[Jayme]

There should be a special place in hell for lawyers like that...

A more special place than the rest of the lawyers go?

I've actually had beers with Joel.

Meh, even lawyers have to drink.

[bluenose]

...mixed emotions.

I do believe that even guilty arseholes have the right to a defense, but it sucks being in the right and on the losing end.

If I needed a lawyer, I'd hire Pink

[Jayme]

I guess ultimately it's the system that's flawed and there are some talented defense lawyers out there that know how to exploit it. I have no idea who Pink is, but if he's got a reputation for mostly defending the guilty and getting them off the hook, I don't respect that. I guess it's one thing if he truly believes the people he defends to be innocent, but if I were a lawyer and consciously knew I was getting someone I knew was guilty off the hook, it would be awfully hard to sleep at night. I concur with mixed emotions being the case, but it's hard to deny there are some truly crooked lawyers out there (whether or not this Pink fellow is one of them, I cannot comment).

[bluenose]

but if you're ever guilty and need a lawyer, then now you know who to call

[Jayme]

Haha that's true.

[derek]

I guess ultimately it's the system that's flawed and there are some talented defense lawyers out there that know how to exploit it. I have no idea who Pink is, but if he's got a reputation for mostly defending the guilty and getting them off the hook, I don't respect that. I guess it's one thing if he truly believes the people he defends to be innocent, but if I were a lawyer and consciously knew I was getting someone I knew was guilty off the hook, it would be awfully hard to sleep at night. I concur with mixed emotions being the case, but it's hard to deny there are some truly crooked lawyers out there (whether or not this Pink fellow is one of them, I cannot comment).

I don't buy that the system's flawed. The alternative to a system that gives the defendant the benefit of the doubt, and constitutional rights, is to live in a place where the police can make up a charge and throw away the key. It's a defence lawyer's job to give a client the best defence he can. If they can't live with the fact that that means some criminals get off, they won't become defence lawyers! It's also a disbarment offence to not give the client the best defence. And no, Pink is not a crooked lawyer.

[KMcK]

There should be a special place in hell for lawyers like that...

A more special place than the rest of the lawyers go?

I've actually had beers with Joel.

Meh, even lawyers have to drink.

Yeah, but what did he drink?

[KMcK]

I guess ultimately it's the system that's flawed and there are some talented defense lawyers out there that know how to exploit it. I have no idea who Pink is, but if he's got a reputation for mostly defending the guilty and getting them off the hook, I don't respect that. I guess it's one thing if he truly believes the people he defends to be innocent, but if I were a lawyer and consciously knew I was getting someone I knew was guilty off the hook, it would be awfully hard to sleep at night. I concur with mixed emotions being the case, but it's hard to deny there are some truly crooked lawyers out there (whether or not this Pink fellow is one of them, I cannot comment).

I don't buy that the system's flawed. The alternative to a system that gives the defendant the benefit of the doubt, and constitutional rights, is to live in a place where the police can make up a charge and throw away the key. It's a defence lawyer's job to give a client the best defence he can. If they can't live with the fact that that means some criminals get off, they won't become defence lawyers! It's also a disbarment offence to not give the client the best defence. And no, Pink is not a crooked lawyer.

I see a problem with the system in that not everyone can afford a lawyer of Pink's calibre and that can make a huge difference in the outcome. Corporations can afford armies of Pinks but the little guy can't.

[benwedge]

As much as we're running this thread off the rails, the lawyer for Michael Rafferty had a good quote:

“I’m not a judge. My job is to pull on one end of the rope. That’s what I’m paid to do. Pull, pull, pull and we’ll see how we come out at the end of the day,” he said. “If I start thinking ‘[my client] may well be guilty, I better slow down on my pulling,’ then the whole system goes out of whack.”

As far as affordability is concerned, the Globe did a fair bit of writing last year inspired by lawyers who feel the middle class has no access to justice (the poorest members of society have legal aid, which comes with its flaws). The answer to the problem is really complex, but they were suggesting new fee schedules, requirements that all lawyers do legal aid work, and more. I just hope I never need to hire one.

[Jayme]

As far as affordability is concerned, the Globe did a fair bit of writing last year inspired by lawyers who feel the middle class has no access to justice (the poorest members of society have legal aid, which comes with its flaws). The answer to the problem is really complex, but they were suggesting new fee schedules, requirements that all lawyers do legal aid work, and more. I just hope I never need to hire one.

This is all too true. Tying it back into the actual incident which was the subject of this post, I called my lawyer about pressing charges against my co-worker and he basically discouraged me from doing so. Reason being though my co-worker likely would lose the case,as he has no money I would ultimately not get paid, I would go broke with legal fees and and he would then have reason to retaliate. How can you not see flaws in the system based on that alone? I'm not saying I'm some legal genius out to fix it, but even if our justice system were the best in the world, it would still have flaws. Any time that a guilty person walks free, the justice system has failed. After all, what is the point of a justice system? Protect the innocent and punish the guilty. When that outcome is disrupted for whatever reason, that's a flaw. I realize the perfect system does not exist, nor will it ever, but that's not the point. I also realize lawyer's are living, breathing people as well and someone has to defend the guilty - doesn't necessarily mean they're bad people. My point was I don't know how some lawyers sleep at night when they win a case for someone they know should have lost. I couldn't justify that for myself if I were them, even though they're just doing the job they were hired to do. That's why I'm not a lawyer. Anyway....