2016 Advent - December 5: Berlintermites - Berliner Weisse

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Jimmy
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2016 Advent - December 5: Berlintermites - Berliner Weisse

Post by Jimmy » Tue Aug 18, 2015 7:58 am

This is my Berliner Weisse recipe that I've had at a couple of the monthly meetings. It seemed to be enjoyed by most, and I've had a few requests for the recipe/process.

The name of the beer comes from Becky not having a clue what I was saying when I first told her I was brewing a Berliner Weisse..."a what? Berlin Termites?" :lol:

This is also a beer that you can turn around pretty damn quick. The first monthly meeting that I had brought this to, I had just kegged it that day - it was 7 days from the day I had brewed it. It was still pretty murky, but the taste was there. I'm brewing it again this weekend and doing a triple batch for the first time.

Stats:
OG:1.031
4.5 IBU
2.8% ABV

Mash:
56.8% Pilsen Malt
40.3% Wheat Malt
2.9% Acid Malt

-Mash @ 150*f for 60 minutes
-Remove grain, and raise wort temperature to 180*f for ~15 minutes
-Chill wort to ~110-115*f

Souring:
-Add unmilled malt to wort (I use a stainless mesh tube to easily remove the malt later. A mesh bag would work as well). I use a ratio of .5 lb Acid Malt & .5lb 2 Row per 5 gallons of wort.
-Run CO2 through wort to purge O2 from wort & vessel. You want to eliminate as much O2 during the souring phase as possible.
-Hold at 110-115*f until desired pH has been reached. Most information you read will suggest something like a pH of 3.2-3.6..the lower you go, the more sour it will be and the harder it is on your yeast. I normally aim for somewhere around 3.3. Expect to hold at this temperature for 24 hours or more to reach the desired pH.

Boil:
-Once you've reached your desired pH, remove the grain and boil for 15 minutes
-4.5 IBU of Spalt Select @ 10 minutes
-Chill to 68*f

Fermentation:
-Ferment with US-05 @ 68*f

Raspberry Variation:
-Brew exactly the same as the recipe above, but on day 4 of active fermentation, add frozen raspberries at a ratio of .85lbs/gallon. I use a mesh BIAB bag to add the raspberries to the fermenter
-Leave the raspberries in the fermenter for 1 week



Standard Berliner Weisse
Image


Raspberry Berliner Weisse
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Re: Berlintermites - Beliner Weisse

Post by John G » Sat Aug 22, 2015 9:50 pm

Jimmy,
Do you think it would work if I adapted this for my HERMS system by just mashing out by raising my recirculating mash up to 180F for 15mins, cooling back down to 110-115F, leaving the crushed grains in and adding the uncrushed grains, recirc and hold 110-115F for 24h or until I hit the pH and then lauter to boil kettle for the 15min boil? I wonder if leaving the crushed grains overnight at 115 would be a problem?

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Re: Berlintermites - Beliner Weisse

Post by Jimmy » Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:05 am

John G wrote:Jimmy,
Do you think it would work if I adapted this for my HERMS system by just mashing out by raising my recirculating mash up to 180F for 15mins, cooling back down to 110-115F, leaving the crushed grains in and adding the uncrushed grains, recirc and hold 110-115F for 24h or until I hit the pH and then lauter to boil kettle for the 15min boil? I wonder if leaving the crushed grains overnight at 115 would be a problem?
The biggest issue I can see with this is the 180*f with the grain still in the mash.

I've never tried it, so I'm honestly not sure, but from my reading you don't really want to pass the 168ish temp with the malt still in the mash. It may be fine, or it may not.

My suggestion would be to not do the 180* step (if you can't separate the malt/wort before this), and go right to the souring step. There's the sour mashing method, and I'm pretty sure that it's exactly what we're talking about here (mashing, then holding at 110-115 to sour).

Are you able to easily separate the wort from the mash and still control the temp?

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Re: Berlintermites - Beliner Weisse

Post by John G » Sun Aug 23, 2015 8:35 am

Now that you mention it, I realized that I can control the wort temp - I forgot that I can recirc from my HEX through my kettle, I've just never done that before. The only concern with recirculating is adding oxygen. If I can manually find the sweet spot with my PWM control on my kettle to hold 110-115 that may work better. I'll give it a try with just water in the kettle and see how easy it is to maintain 115.

Thanks Jimmy. Is the 180F to kill off anything from the wort before you start with a known amount of sour starter malt?

John

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Re: Berlintermites - Beliner Weisse

Post by Jimmy » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:50 am

John G wrote:Now that you mention it, I realized that I can control the wort temp - I forgot that I can recirc from my HEX through my kettle, I've just never done that before. The only concern with recirculating is adding oxygen. If I can manually find the sweet spot with my PWM control on my kettle to hold 110-115 that may work better. I'll give it a try with just water in the kettle and see how easy it is to maintain 115.

Thanks Jimmy. Is the 180F to kill off anything from the wort before you start with a known amount of sour starter malt?

John
You're correct on the 180F, but in reality, you don't know what the hell you're adding when you introduce the additional malt - so it may not be necessary.

Some posts online suggest dropping the pH to 4.5 or lower to help prevent other bugs from surviving. I checked the pH on mine yesterday after introducing the malt, and it was 5.10.

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Re: Berlintermites - Beliner Weisse

Post by jacinthebox » Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:02 am

Hey Jimmy...did you use a particular water profile for this? Balanced/Munich/light and malty?
I may brew this up (loving Nash's sour)...I'll start with RO and built my profile from zero

Thanks in advance
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Re: Berlintermites - Beliner Weisse

Post by Jimmy » Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:11 am

jacinthebox wrote:Hey Jimmy...did you use a particular water profile for this? Balanced/Munich/light and malty?
I may brew this up (loving Nash's sour)...I'll start with RO and built my profile from zero

Thanks in advance
I build mine up from RO as well:

Ca: 52.5 ppm
Mg: 9.9 ppm
Na: 13.3 ppm
SO4: 66.9 ppm
Cl: 84.8 ppm
HCO3: 14.4 ppm

Which, for my 10 gallon batch (49.54 liters of water total), I use the following additions:

7.43g Calcium Chloride
4.95g Epsom Salt
2.48g Gypsum
1g Baking Soda
1g Salt

I also use 5g of Wyeast Yeast Nutrient 10 minutes before flameout.

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Re: Berlintermites - Beliner Weisse

Post by jacinthebox » Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:28 am

Jimmy wrote:
jacinthebox wrote:Hey Jimmy...did you use a particular water profile for this? Balanced/Munich/light and malty?
I may brew this up (loving Nash's sour)...I'll start with RO and built my profile from zero

Thanks in advance
I build mine up from RO as well:

Ca: 52.5 ppm
Mg: 9.9 ppm
Na: 13.3 ppm
SO4: 66.9 ppm
Cl: 84.8 ppm
HCO3: 14.4 ppm

Which, for my 10 gallon batch (49.54 liters of water total), I use the following additions:

7.43g Calcium Chloride
4.95g Epsom Salt
2.48g Gypsum
1g Baking Soda
1g Salt

I also use 5g of Wyeast Yeast Nutrient 10 minutes before flameout.
perfect...I'm thinking of a cherry beliner weisse...for some reason that sounds exciting to me lol
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Re: Berlintermites - Beliner Weisse

Post by Jimmy » Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:28 am

jacinthebox wrote:
Jimmy wrote:
jacinthebox wrote:Hey Jimmy...did you use a particular water profile for this? Balanced/Munich/light and malty?
I may brew this up (loving Nash's sour)...I'll start with RO and built my profile from zero

Thanks in advance
I build mine up from RO as well:

Ca: 52.5 ppm
Mg: 9.9 ppm
Na: 13.3 ppm
SO4: 66.9 ppm
Cl: 84.8 ppm
HCO3: 14.4 ppm

Which, for my 10 gallon batch (49.54 liters of water total), I use the following additions:

7.43g Calcium Chloride
4.95g Epsom Salt
2.48g Gypsum
1g Baking Soda
1g Salt

I also use 5g of Wyeast Yeast Nutrient 10 minutes before flameout.
perfect...I'm thinking of a cherry beliner weisse...for some reason that sounds exciting to me lol
Would likely be good. I've been thinking about aging mine on fruit at some point, but have also been enjoying it naked :lol:

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Re: Berlintermites - Beliner Weisse

Post by jeffsmith » Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:56 am

jacinthebox wrote:Hey Jimmy...did you use a particular water profile for this? Balanced/Munich/light and malty?
I may brew this up (loving Nash's sour)...I'll start with RO and built my profile from zero

Thanks in advance
Been thinking about this as well. Justin, you use a propane setup, correct? How are you planning on maintaining the temp to promote lacto growth?

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Re: Berlintermites - Beliner Weisse

Post by Jimmy » Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:07 pm

jeffsmith wrote:
jacinthebox wrote:Hey Jimmy...did you use a particular water profile for this? Balanced/Munich/light and malty?
I may brew this up (loving Nash's sour)...I'll start with RO and built my profile from zero

Thanks in advance
Been thinking about this as well. Justin, you use a propane setup, correct? How are you planning on maintaining the temp to promote lacto growth?
You could use a heating blanket, or fermwrap or something like that on a temp controller?

I know Nash used a household heating blanket wrapped around a corny keg to make his lacto starter at Rockbottom:

http://www.brewnosers.org/forums/viewto ... 149#p84149" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Berlintermites - Beliner Weisse

Post by jeffsmith » Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:09 pm

Jimmy wrote:You could use a heating blanket, or fermwrap or something like that on a temp controller?

I know Nash used a household heating blanket wrapped around a corny keg to make his lacto starter at Rockbottom:

http://www.brewnosers.org/forums/viewto ... 149#p84149" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That might do it.

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Re: Berlintermites - Beliner Weisse

Post by Keith » Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:13 pm

What issues could we expect if we set the temp around 115 and as it drops to say 100-105 increase the volume using hot water. Think that may work?
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Re: Berlintermites - Beliner Weisse

Post by Jimmy » Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:17 pm

Keith wrote:What issues could we expect if we set the temp around 115 and as it drops to say 100-105 increase the volume using hot water. Think that may work?
Lacto has a wide range of temperatures that it can work at, and it seems that many breweries use different temperatures to produce the sourness.

I'm thinking a drop down to 100 wouldn't be a huge deal, but there's really only one way to find out.

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Re: Berlintermites - Beliner Weisse

Post by Keith » Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:20 pm

Jimmy wrote:
Keith wrote:What issues could we expect if we set the temp around 115 and as it drops to say 100-105 increase the volume using hot water. Think that may work?
Lacto has a wide range of temperatures that it can work at, and it seems that many breweries use different temperatures to produce the sourness.

I'm thinking a drop down to 100 wouldn't be a huge deal, but there's really only one way to find out.
I wonder how much Erin will object to having a full stinky mash tun in her dining room for a day or so. :lol:
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Re: Berlintermites - Beliner Weisse

Post by Jimmy » Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:22 pm

Keith wrote:
Jimmy wrote:
Keith wrote:What issues could we expect if we set the temp around 115 and as it drops to say 100-105 increase the volume using hot water. Think that may work?
Lacto has a wide range of temperatures that it can work at, and it seems that many breweries use different temperatures to produce the sourness.

I'm thinking a drop down to 100 wouldn't be a huge deal, but there's really only one way to find out.
I wonder how much Erin will object to having a full stinky mash tun in her dining room for a day or so. :lol:
Mine doesn't smell bad - it's sort of a lemony-vegetable smell (and I can only smell it when I remove the lid).

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Re: Berlintermites - Beliner Weisse

Post by Keith » Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:29 pm

This will be only allowed once in awhile and the only reason I will agree to this is because this beer is 100% for me  And I might share a glass or two but that will be all 
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Re: Berlintermites - Beliner Weisse

Post by Jimmy » Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:31 pm

Keith wrote:
This will be only allowed once in awhile and the only reason I will agree to this is because this beer is 100% for me  And I might share a glass or two but that will be all 
So you brew it, but don't get any of it? :lol:

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Re: Berlintermites - Beliner Weisse

Post by Keith » Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:42 pm

Except a glass or two haha
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Re: Berlintermites - Beliner Weisse

Post by jacinthebox » Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:09 pm

jeffsmith wrote:
jacinthebox wrote:Hey Jimmy...did you use a particular water profile for this? Balanced/Munich/light and malty?
I may brew this up (loving Nash's sour)...I'll start with RO and built my profile from zero

Thanks in advance
Been thinking about this as well. Justin, you use a propane setup, correct? How are you planning on maintaining the temp to promote lacto growth?
I have a ferm wrap inside of my new ferm/lager fridge. just set the temp and let it ride

I also decided not to use cherries this time...I'll just start with a naked version with simcoe
Last edited by jacinthebox on Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Berlintermites - Beliner Weisse

Post by jacinthebox » Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:11 pm

Jimmy...don't remember if I saw you post your desired mash PH post sour...was it 3.5?
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Re: Berlintermites - Beliner Weisse

Post by Jimmy » Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:15 pm

jacinthebox wrote:Jimmy...don't remember if I saw you post your desired mash PH post sour...was it 3.5?
My last one was pH 3.25, this one was 3.28 - makes for a fairly sour beer.

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Re: Berlintermites - Beliner Weisse

Post by jacinthebox » Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:32 pm

Jimmy wrote:
jacinthebox wrote:Jimmy...don't remember if I saw you post your desired mash PH post sour...was it 3.5?
My last one was pH 3.25, this one was 3.28 - makes for a fairly sour beer.
I'm new to sours...loved nash's...where do you think I should be? in your opinion
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Re: Berlintermites - Beliner Weisse

Post by Jimmy » Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:35 pm

jacinthebox wrote:
Jimmy wrote:
jacinthebox wrote:Jimmy...don't remember if I saw you post your desired mash PH post sour...was it 3.5?
My last one was pH 3.25, this one was 3.28 - makes for a fairly sour beer.
I'm new to sours...loved nash's...where do you think I should be? in your opinion
I'd shoot for somewhere between 3.20 and 3.35. I was really happy with the sourness of my 3.25 and was hoping to bring my most recent one down a bit more (from 3.28). I'm sure anywhere in that range will produce a tasty sour beer.

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Re: Berlintermites - Beliner Weisse

Post by jacinthebox » Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:09 pm

thanks dude...
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