Well, it's now OK for the NDP to steal your land

[benwedge]

The two issues I see here is that:
2) There's no public sharing of property values in the province. We're the only province which does not share the info publicly, so it's next to impossible to determine fair value for land. Tim Bousquet wrote about this in January. For all we know an identical parcel could have been sold in the area for $1 million.

That's not entirely true. The Legislature recently passed Bill 73 on May 8 mandating the publishing of Sale prices. It is true we were the last province to do so. I license and distribute property and other geographic data on behalf of the province, so I deal with this on a daily basis.

http://nslegislature.ca/legc/bills/61st ... d/b073.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This Bill amends the Municipal Government Act to
(a) authorize registrars of deeds to publish sale price and related information contained in deed transfer tax affidavits;
(b) authorize the Minister to prescribe related information by regulation; and
(c) provide greater certainty concerning the sharing of information in deed transfer tax affidavits with property assessors.

While the bill has been passed, as far as I know, no one has been given any mechanism to easily publish the data. You could always walk into the County Registry office and request the information though.

Also, please don't think I'm defending the gov't on this - just trying to provide facts. I think the expropriation is Bullshit too.

That's good to know. I didn't see anything written saying that that had changed. It'll be good when it actually gets published. My question, though, is whether it will actually be published. My interpretation of that is that it is now allowed to be published, but perhaps it also means that a citizen could set up a website and they'd have to release every single transaction?

[akr71]

The information was always available (as long as they've been recording it), but filed away in the Registry of Deeds. You'd probably have to pay an access fee and have a clerk dig it up (either from books or digitally). I'd like to know as well what it means to 'publish' the values as could impact what I send to clients - it implies that it should be freely available, but the gov't publishes a lot of data that costs $. It should be as simple as modifying a SQL query or two & pull that out of the database.

I send property updates to these guys every month (http://www.viewpoint.ca/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) They already have a slick site (its free) that publishes sold data - how they get it, I'm not sure, but I think that they buy/license it from PVSC (Property Valuations Services Corp - the old Property Assessment division).

[Brewnoser]

As an aside, government always pays more for expropriated land than it is worth. We also have to pay the owners legal fees, normally. The tactic of holding out as last landowner is a tried and tested way of getting more public
Money than your neighbors did.

X land in HRM may be increasing in value, but only on the urban area. Moose River? Probably not.

[mr x]

Land is skyrocketing in Porter's Lake. To think the government pays more for the land is not based on fact. What would that land be worth as a gold mine? Probably a lot more than a tree farm. Knowing that the government will step in and take the land totally eliminates any need for one party to negotiate in good faith. Corporate greed. People don't get to be billionaires by having moral values.

[KMcK]

So the government steals the land from the family that's owned it for 120 years, yet they may have stolen it from the Acadians, and it was certainly stolen from the Mi'kmaq. What's new? This time there's fair compensation and the family is playing the holdout and public sympathy game to increase their compensation.

People live, or at least privately own land, almost everywhere in Nova Scotia so it's next to impossible to start a large scale development without inconveniencing someone. If it's in the public interest (as determined by the government) then expropriation likely has to take place. Fortunately the process is much more fair now than it was a generation ago.

The five year business plan may be a way of getting quicker regulatory approval than if they laid out all their plans at once. If the price of gold continues to support production here beyond what they've said they're extracting they can much more easily get a small extension to their enviornmental assessment approval. This is a shortcoming of the legislation and can lead to a slippery slope style expansion of the mine well beyond what was initally approved.

[bluenose]

So the government steals the land from the family that's owned it for 120 years, yet they may have stolen it from the Acadians, and it was certainly stolen from the Mi'kmaq. What's new? This time there's fair compensation and the family is playing the holdout and public sympathy game to increase their compensation.

Shhh, they might want it back

[Dirt Chicken]

at first, i was sort of on the fence leaning towards the views of the government/mining people - jobs for people, etc. but then i saw that it will only result in an operational mine for 5 years. talk about short term gains over long term - ten years later, there will be no jobs, AND no christmas tree farm. short sighted on the government's part.

not to mention a huge gaping pit with runoff into the local water table, I biked past a gypsum mine hidden in coldstream nova scotia, this isn't good by any means. Plus it being an international mining company. I just don't know anymore, I don't want to live in the city, but what is stoping the so called "government" to take away what ultimately is not theirs for short gain profits at the cost of everything???

[Dirt Chicken]

I guess what I don't understand is if you own the land, pay taxes on the land, what gives anybody (working under the same set of rules and regulations) the right to come and take that land from you? If it's been in the family for 120 years, one would expect that the land is theirs to do as they wish. Why should Nova Scotian's trust a company with a 5 year business plan?

They shouldn't, but why is this an NDP-bashing thread. The Higgins family is going to lose in court, because the Common Law allowing a private corporation to force them to sell is hundreds of years old.

Yes, it's corporate theft, and I'd like to see this government take a stand (which would surely go all the way to the Supreme court - where they would LOSE!), but it wasn't on this government's watch that this whole process started, and it won't be on this government's, or likely any government in my lifetime,that the law changes.

As for the 5-year plan - that doesn't make it a 5-year mine. They can't extract the amount of gold they believe they can access in 5 years.

NDP, Liberal, PC same deal, same voting over 86% of the time, people have to wake up and stop blaming this party or that one. THEY ARE THE SAME, PERIOD. 5years of labour jobs for unskilled workers, 120years family business with many generations that kept it going, they haven't partitioned their land for development, if they were getting greedy for money wouldn't' you think that they would have sold off lots for cash??

this is fucked!! As you said Robert, where is a safe place to build a life now??

[KMcK]

at first, i was sort of on the fence leaning towards the views of the government/mining people - jobs for people, etc. but then i saw that it will only result in an operational mine for 5 years. talk about short term gains over long term - ten years later, there will be no jobs, AND no christmas tree farm. short sighted on the government's part.

Given the downturn in the forest sector there is plenty of land for tree farming all over, but you can't just place a mine anywhere. If anyone thinks we don't need minerals then he shouldn't be on this forum because of all the high tech gear it requires.

[CorneliusAlphonse]

at first, i was sort of on the fence leaning towards the views of the government/mining people - jobs for people, etc. but then i saw that it will only result in an operational mine for 5 years. talk about short term gains over long term - ten years later, there will be no jobs, AND no christmas tree farm. short sighted on the government's part.

Given the downturn in the forest sector there is plenty of land for tree farming all over, but you can't just place a mine anywhere. If anyone thinks we don't need minerals then he shouldn't be on this forum because of all the high tech gear it requires.

i moved to a different province to help build a nickle refinery mines can be anywhere except my back yard

my issues relate to the short projected life of the mine, and the simple fact that they are mining gold and not something more useful. a gold mine actually can be put in a huge number of places, it just depends on the market value of gold, how much rock they'll need to crush and chemically leach to extract the gold, and still make a profit.

[erslar00]

at first, i was sort of on the fence leaning towards the views of the government/mining people - jobs for people, etc. but then i saw that it will only result in an operational mine for 5 years. talk about short term gains over long term - ten years later, there will be no jobs, AND no christmas tree farm. short sighted on the government's part.

Given the downturn in the forest sector there is plenty of land for tree farming all over, but you can't just place a mine anywhere. If anyone thinks we don't need minerals then he shouldn't be on this forum because of all the high tech gear it requires.

There are many intangible factors that come into play in a situation like this that are very difficult to value.. and it's very easy for people(brewnoser, kyle) sitting back from a distance that are not impacted by the situation to immediately point out that they'(land owners) are just trying to rape society for a better price but I question that. Consider this... my adopted great grandfather that immigrated from the Ukraine to Niagara Falls, Ontario and setup a barber shop on the main drag in niagara falls ontario... he worked his entire life to buy the land and setup the shop and home(in the back)...he then passed it on to this son(my grandpa)..and he worked the next 50 years and was passing the shop on to his daughter when the city of Niagara Falls decided to expropriate the land to expand they're parking lot... now... let's offer him full market vaule for the land.. what about the business our family built for 100 years in Niagra falls..... oh.. yeah ... fuck off and go die in a mall.. thanks.

[mr x]

at first, i was sort of on the fence leaning towards the views of the government/mining people - jobs for people, etc. but then i saw that it will only result in an operational mine for 5 years. talk about short term gains over long term - ten years later, there will be no jobs, AND no christmas tree farm. short sighted on the government's part.

Given the downturn in the forest sector there is plenty of land for tree farming all over, but you can't just place a mine anywhere. If anyone thinks we don't need minerals then he shouldn't be on this forum because of all the high tech gear it requires.

we need minerals. Although I seriuosly doubt we need golden tablets. And if this is such a valuable resource necessary for society not to implode on itself, maybe the market value of the land needs to be reassessed. And I'm with Larry, corporations and governments can fuck off and die.

[mr x]

Just listened to maritime noon regaring this issue. This province is the eigth circle of hell. That will be my next beer.

[derek]

Just listened to maritime noon regaring this issue. This province is the eigth circle of hell. That will be my next beer.

No, probably the 4th (Greed), maybe the 9th (Treachery), but not the 8th (Fraud).

[benwedge]

Just listened to maritime noon regaring this issue. This province is the eigth circle of hell. That will be my next beer.

No, probably the 4th (Greed), maybe the 9th (Treachery), but not the 8th (Fraud).

Came here to say the same thing. Based on a convo yesterday it seems to be common "knowledge" that there are 7 circles. There are 9.

[mr x]

Somebody did them in lego recently. I think the series is in the UK Telegraph. Quite funny, especially lust.

[KMcK]

my issues relate to the short projected life of the mine, and the simple fact that they are mining gold and not something more useful. a gold mine actually can be put in a huge number of places, it just depends on the market value of gold, how much rock they'll need to crush and chemically leach to extract the gold, and still make a profit.

No, mine siting isn't that simple. Perhaps you're thinking of the processing plant. More importantly, this mine, like all other modern hard rock mines, will not just extract gold but will also recover many other precious metals in much smaller quantities as byproducts. These may even include some rare earth elements that are extremely important to society (much more so than gold) but would be prohibitively expensive to extract if the gold weren't subsidizing them.

[benwedge]

According to an article on OpenFile the government overstated the company's estimates for production. Regardless of whether they ultimately made the right decision, it's probably safe to assume the company is using a liberal assessment of the mine to influence the government and investors, so if anything the government should be understating the yield. Now that I've located my tinfoil hat, I think there's a lot more to this story than we've been told.

The province’s press release projects a 5-7 year lifespan to harvest the estimated 635,000 ounces of gold. Atlantic Gold’s 2011 annual report on the other hand is set firm at five years, and estimates there are only 422,000 ounces of gold. They also predict a pre tax surplus from the project to net $337 million.