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Hey all. I'm looking to make the transition to all grain by the spring but I'm also hoping to keep my costs down. Anyone selling a 10 g brew kettle /mash tun / anything else I'd need to make the transition?

Kennedy

JackKing wrote:Hey all. I'm looking to make the transition to all grain by the spring but I'm also hoping to keep my costs down. Anyone selling a 10 g brew kettle /mash tun / anything else I'd need to make the transition?

Kennedy

To keep costs down, consider BIAB - have a look at that thread on this forum. Great way to get into all grain with minimal equipment.

I've looked into BIAB but I figured the cost of the bag, extra grains for less efficient extractions and the bigger brew kettle, it would all end up flush anyway. That said, it does seem quicker and easier and my wife would probably appreciate one less piece of equipment.

My efficiency is shit whether I do BIAB or not. Equipment is significantly cheaper for BIAB I found

What exactly makes it cheaper though? If it's like everything else I'm sure there are tons of extras that add up but I thought the only difference was the mash tun and possibly the HLT..

JackKing wrote:I've looked into BIAB but I figured the cost of the bag, extra grains for less efficient extractions and the bigger brew kettle, it would all end up flush anyway. That said, it does seem quicker and easier and my wife would probably appreciate one less piece of equipment.

I just recently switched to BIAB and have been hitting or exceeding my numbers the last few batches. Doing a finer grind on your grain and/or double milling makes a huge difference! I should mention i'm brewing 10 gal batches as well.

So the costs with say a 5gal BIAB are: 15gallon pot ($130ish new) and bag (25$ish). Total $155
Doing traditional HLT + BK + MT is: 9gal HLT maybe $90?, 9 gal BK is same, mash tun is 25$ for a cooler plus another 20-40 for the manifold thing. Total ~225-250 roughly
Alternatively, using same pot as BK and HLT and collecting first runnings in a bucket would bring it down on par with BIAB

One thing I note is, I have a cooler and a 15gallon kettle. I do 5gallon BIAB using just the pot mostly, its quick and easy. If I want to do a ten gallon, or brew a barley wine, I do the two vessel thing using my BIAB as my manifold. Total cost for that is 160 probably and gives you a lot of flexibility.

None of these costs includes heating (propane tank and burner, or heat stick or whatever)

Cost of grain based on a drop in efficiency in BIAB is a myth in my brewing. On average, I get 83 to 85% mash efficiency whether brewing 20L BIAB or 40L with HLT, MT, BK with batch sparge.

I've actually noticed a marked increase in efficiency when switching to biab from a traditional batch sparge. I think it's because I've been using full volume mashing and my water calculations are more specific than my attempts at batch sparge was.

Sweet. Thanks for the info. Sounds like the best way to start

Cheers

I personally prefer 2 vessel myself, but your cheapest route would be BIAB and it works just great.

If you ever plan to move to 10 gallon batches, I would highly recommend a 20 gallon pot. The 15 gallon will work. But I've had more boil overs than I care to admit.

BIAB is pretty good, and I am not dissing it in anyway, but I prefer the 2 vessel method as well. When I started all grain brewing few years ago it was quite a bit cheaper to go that route as you needed smaller kettle and I got set up with a 9 gal kettle and a 13 gal cooler mashtun with bazookascreen manifold for under $150. Now that larger kettles have dropped in price quite a bit, BIAB might be more comparable. There is also less mess, less handling of a dripping hot bag of grain and easier to scale up to 10 gal batches imo. Tried BIAB in my keggle and it was messy and a bit scary in comparison to the simplicity of the 2 vessel method that I am used to.

How do you guys calc efficiency? I haven't bothered yet

bandarker wrote:How do you guys calc efficiency? I haven't bothered yet

I use Beersmith - estimated mash efficiency and measured mash efficiency are both calculated based on your gravities and volumes.

bandarker wrote:How do you guys calc efficiency? I haven't bothered yet

The efficiency you normally hear talked about is your mash (or extract efficiency - how much you were able to pull out of the mash). I've never actually calculated it, but I use beersmith to figure out my mash efficiency. If you're hitting your proper preboil volume and preboil gravity, then your mash efficiency setting in beersmith is correct. If your gravity is high or low, you can adjust your mash efficiency setting until it matches the preboil gravity you actually hit.

Jimmy wrote:

bandarker wrote:How do you guys calc efficiency? I haven't bothered yet

The efficiency you normally hear talked about is your mash (or extract efficiency - how much you were able to pull out of the mash). I've never actually calculated it, but I use beersmith to figure out my mash efficiency. If you're hitting your proper preboil volume and preboil gravity, then your mash efficiency setting in beersmith is correct. If your gravity is high or low, you can adjust your mash efficiency setting until it matches the preboil gravity you actually hit.

This is exactly what I do as well

Ah yes. Forgot about what a pain in the ass a partial mash grain bag was.. I can only imagine a full grain batch. Any trade secrets for avoiding the mess and burnt fingertips?

JackKing wrote:Any trade secrets for avoiding the mess and burnt fingertips?

For BIAB? If you plan on bag squeezing, buy some insulated gloves. I didn't bother and the heat would destroy my hands. Also, build a pulley system for lifting the bag unless you like back pain.

Personally I switched from BIAB to 2-vessel Batch Sparging. I haven't noticed a drop in efficiency, but I have noticed that it's a lot cleaner and it's a lot less strenuous. I feel like I have more control over my pre-boil gravity now as well, since I can always collect more out of the mash tun if I need to. With BIAB, once you pull the bag you get what you get. You can boil off more water if you need to, but getting more points by bag squeezing seems arcane to me.

Keith wrote:I personally prefer 2 vessel myself, but your cheapest route would be BIAB and it works just great.

If you ever plan to move to 10 gallon batches, I would highly recommend a 20 gallon pot. The 15 gallon will work. But I've had more boil overs than I care to admit.

I would feel remiss if I didn't mention that I kettle BIAB for 5 gallon batches and cooler BIAB for 10 gallons.

JackKing wrote:Ah yes. Forgot about what a pain in the ass a partial mash grain bag was.. I can only imagine a full grain batch. Any trade secrets for avoiding the mess and burnt fingertips?

When I had a keggle, I had a large colander that fit on top of my keggle, so, pull the bag, place in colander on top of keggle. Let it drain as the wort heats up. Hands don't even get wet and no squeezing required. I have much the same setup now in my 20g pot when I do 5g Biab, only I have a rack that fits the top of the pot and the colander sets on top of that, draining as the wort heats up. Again, no mess, dry hands, and grain gets carried out and dumped in the backyard composter.

JackKing wrote:Ah yes. Forgot about what a pain in the ass a partial mash grain bag was.. I can only imagine a full grain batch. Any trade secrets for avoiding the mess and burnt fingertips?

When I did that, I had one of these resting on the pot with the bag sitting on it draining (did double batch, high gravity BIAB with it): http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/cuisi ... OCG0o10ybw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;