Full Volume Mash?

Discuss all things BIAB (Brew In A Bag)
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GuingesRock
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Re: Full Volume Mash?

Post by GuingesRock » Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:27 pm

Mark,
I am very sorry for the issue. If you could send me your mailing address I will send a new screw for your collar if you can remove it and a pair of brewing gloves for your trouble. We unfortunately had a batch of screws that were not stainless that we unwittingly sold. You should be able to remove the rust with a scrubbing pad and bar keeper's friend. Thank you in advance for the information. If you have further questions please feel free to contact me. Have a great day.

Cheers,


Nick

Blichmann Engineering, LLC
Last edited by GuingesRock on Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:33 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Full Volume Mash?

Post by mr x » Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:54 pm

BKF is pretty cheap at HD and sometimes CT.
At Alexander Keith's we follow the recipes first developed by the great brewmaster to the absolute letter. :wtf:

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Re: Full Volume Mash?

Post by GuingesRock » Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:53 pm

I’m finally getting to the boil now in my old boiling pot (familiar territory ...feels like home). The mash got stuck in the new mash pot. I was trying to recirculate the mash while heating the bottom of the pot to bring up the mash temperature from the ferulic acid rest at 111F to a desired conversion of 154F. I was recirculating by running off wort into a stock pot and tipping it on the top of the mash. Because of the stuck mash, I only made it to 150F. Some of the wort under the false bottom went up to 175F and killed the enzymes because of the stuck mash, but I think that was only a gallon or two that did that and I might be still ok.

Question …did the mash stick because I was using 50% wheat?

I’ll try it with a regular barley brew IPA, and I won’t have to recirculate as there won’t be any step mashing. If I have trouble with that I think I’ll order a bag for it from Jimmy and Becky.

The wort was really clear with all the vorluffing (if that’s even a word).

I think I’m sending the heat stick back. I think it’s a piece of crap. I used it once to heat plain water and it looks like it has gone rusty …but I might just be in a bad mood.

Moral of the story …don’t brew a competition beer on a new system that you haven’t got the hang of. It’s too bloody stressful. I’m off to have a beer.

Oh and one more thing. The wonderful patent pending Blichmann false bottom gets lots of grain husks trapped under its little discs and very hard to clean them out ...I might just be in a bad mood.

Final thing, I’m getting some free Blichmann brewing gloves “for my trouble” because the screw went rusty and buggered up my water and false bottom. What do you do with brewing gloves? Kathleen says she wants me to wear them while I’m brewing, with no shirt on ...That cheered me up a bit :)
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Re: Full Volume Mash?

Post by Jimmy » Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:35 pm

GuingesRock wrote:Final thing, I’m getting some free Blichmann brewing gloves “for my trouble” because the screw went rusty and buggered up my water and false bottom. What do you do with brewing gloves? Kathleen says she wants me to wear them while I’m brewing, with no shirt on ...That cheered me up a bit :)
That's exactly what you do with brewing gloves :lol:

Or you could wear them while running on your new treadmill, with no shirt on of course :banana:

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Re: Full Volume Mash?

Post by GuingesRock » Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:21 pm

Jimmy wrote:
GuingesRock wrote:Final thing, I’m getting some free Blichmann brewing gloves “for my trouble” because the screw went rusty and buggered up my water and false bottom. What do you do with brewing gloves? Kathleen says she wants me to wear them while I’m brewing, with no shirt on ...That cheered me up a bit :)
That's exactly what you do with brewing gloves :lol:

Or you could wear them while running on your new treadmill, with no shirt on of course :banana:
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I knew I’d get an expert opinion about brewing gloves from this site.

Ps. I got the ferulic acid rest thing from talking to Nash. I was just pretending to know what I was talking about :)

This site is awesome.

:rockin:
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Re: Full Volume Mash?

Post by LiverDance » Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:59 pm

I did the same thing and brewed my comp beer on a new setup with rims tube, it was a disaster so I feel you pain. The good news is that even though I pretty much fucked everything up that day the beer tastes decent :spilly: enjoy your after brew beer :cheers3:
"Twenty years ago — a time, by the way, that hops such as Simcoe and Citra were already being developed, but weren’t about to find immediate popularity — there wasn’t a brewer on earth who would have gone to the annual Hop Growers of American convention and said, “I’m going to have a beer that we make 4,000 barrels of, one time a year. It flies off the shelf at damn near $20 a six-pack, and you know what it smells like? It smells like your cat ate your weed and then pissed in the Christmas tree.” - Bell’s Brewery Director of Operations John Mallet on the scent of their popular Hopslam.

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Re: Full Volume Mash?

Post by GuingesRock » Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:21 pm

I tried this full volume Blichmann 20 Gal mash pot for the second time today. Had a great brew day. That mash pot worked 100 times better with the BIAB bag that Becky made for me (http://www.biab-brewing.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;).

I got 73% "brew house efficiency" with this full volume mash and my previous system with a 4 gal sparge was 81% but I'm happy because of all the advantages. I'm not comparing apples to apples as the sparge system I had before incorporated a mash out and this brew didn't. With my new pump I can re-circulate and ramp up the mash temp to mash out and that may increase the efficiency. I might try that with the next brew, or I might not bother.

I recirculated the wort any way for 5 mins to clear it.

I used the set and forget thermostatically controlled heat stick to bring the mash water to strike temp (takes 2 1/2 hours). Rust/iron seems to appear on the element as soon as I take it out of the pot but it wipes off easily with a cloth. It might be an electrolytic thing as no anode in the pot? or it could just be cheaply made.
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Re: Full Volume Mash?

Post by GuingesRock » Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:32 pm

Mark,
I am very sorry for the issue. If you could send me your mailing address I will send a new screw for your collar if you can remove it and a pair of brewing gloves for your trouble. We unfortunately had a batch of screws that were not stainless that we unwittingly sold. You should be able to remove the rust with a scrubbing pad and bar keeper's friend. Thank you in advance for the information. If you have further questions please feel free to contact me. Have a great day.

Cheers,


Nick

Blichmann Engineering, LLC
I’ve just been using my new sexy Blichmann brewing gloves, and they have changed my life! I cleaned my pots with Barkeepers friend and pbw and they are now gleaming. When I was done I took the gloves off and my hands were dry and not all wrinkled up from chemical cleaners. They are supposed to be good as well because you can sanitise them. If you buy them they are $14.99 http://www.torontobrewing.ca/servlet/th ... ial/Detail" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Full Volume Mash?

Post by GuingesRock » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:12 am

I thought this was interesting:
"No-sparge," mashing is a term that is commonly misunderstood and mis-used across the internet. BIAB is even sometimes referred to as a no-sparge method. This is incorrect.

BIAB is a method that exposes the grist (crushed grain) to the full volume of water required in the brew at the start of the mash. Traditional methods such as batch-sparging and fly-sparging expose about half this volume to the grist at the beginning of the mash. After the mash this is drained into the kettle and then the second half is introduced to the grain, sometimes in stages, and subsequently drained into the kettle. To do this requires two extra vessels, the 'hot liquor (water) tank' and a 'mash tun.' BIAB enables the kettle to also act as the HLT and mash tun.

Sparging really means to "rinse" the grain. BIAB does this. It simply starts the rinse earlier than traditional methods.

So, what is the "No-Sparge" Method?

The true 'no-sparge' method involves not allowing about half of your full-volume to ever come into contact with the grist. So, the grist does not get 'rinsed.' Instead, the water usually used for sparging gets added directly to the kettle.

Obviously, a failure to rinse means that a lower original gravity will result. To combat this, 'no-spargers,' will increase their grain bill by about a third.

If you need a third more grain, why would anyone "No-Sparge?"

In the BJCP manual there is an article by Louis Bonham. The article begins with...

Quote:
A few years ago I asked George Fix and Paul Fairnsworth what techniques I should use to make the finest possible all-grain beer. Both of them immediately told me, "Don't sparge.

The theory is that it creates a richer, maltier beer. For traditional brewers it also speeds the brewing process up by eliminating the sparge step. Most brewer's palates though would not be able to detect the difference between a no-sparged brew, a full-volume brew (such as BIAB) and a traditionally sparged brew.

Bonham designed an elegant and thorough experiment between a 'no-sparge' beer and a 'sparged' beer. Eight out of thirteen judges/industry professionals were able to taste a difference in 'triangular' tastings. The findings of these eight gets a little vague... "most of [these eight] reported the ['no-sparge'] beer tasted richer and maltier."

http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?f=89&t=617" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Full Volume Mash?

Post by jacinthebox » Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:06 am

I hit my numbers on my very first full volume mash today..saved me a bit of time
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Re: Full Volume Mash?

Post by GuingesRock » Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:24 am

jacinthebox wrote:I hit my numbers on my very first full volume mash today..saved me a bit of time
Hit the same numbers as with a sparged brew or was there a reduced efficiency? I revised my Beersmith to 75% (full volume mash) vs. 81% (with 4 gal sparge, 12 gal batch) on my last 2 full volume mash brews. For me the difference is worth it for the benefits.
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Re: Full Volume Mash?

Post by jacinthebox » Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:57 am

Maybe I fluked...i hit my batch sparge numbers...
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Re: Full Volume Mash?

Post by jtmwhyte » Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:08 am

jacinthebox wrote:Maybe I fluked...i hit my batch sparge numbers...
Bluenose and I did a batch a couple of months back with full volume mash on a Kolsch (cooler BIAB hybrid) and hit our numbers with a bit of additional volume.


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Re: Full Volume Mash?

Post by Jimmy » Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:26 am

I've always had good success with full volume mashing - usually around 80% mash efficiency.

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Re: Full Volume Mash?

Post by LeafMan66_67 » Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:50 am

Jimmy wrote:I've always had good success with full volume mashing - usually around 80% mash efficiency.
Me too. 82 to 84% Mash efficiency with BIAB
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Re: Full Volume Mash?

Post by GuingesRock » Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:18 am

I figured out where I’m losing my 5%. There’s between ½ gal and 1 gal wort left in my Blichmann pot and I’ve been throwing it out. That easily takes care of the 5% drop (14 gal pre boil vol. batch). It’s that simple, or I’m that simple …one or the other. I’ve been recircing with the pump to get clear wort and that last bit after I pull out the bag looks murky to me, so that’s why I haven’t been using it.

I’d say John Palmers statement that “no sparge” brewing uses 20 – 25% more grain is nonsense. His article is linked in the original post of this thread, and I’ve seen that article quoted many many times in arguments against BIAB, infact I might go as far as saying it’s practically the only evidence presented against BIAB. I also think he is using the term “no sparge mashing” incorrectly. According to this he is any way.

But! perhaps he is talking about true "no sparge mashing" and not "full volume mashing". True "no sparge mashing" is less efficient. I can't figure out right now what he is talking about, but what ever the case, his efficiency discussion has no place in discussions of full volume mashing or pure BIAB. The article nicely highlights all of the advantages that are seen with full volume mashing though.

http://www.brewnosers.org/forums/viewto ... =25#p86728" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://byo.com/stories/item/1375-skip-the-sparge" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Full Volume Mash?

Post by Barr » Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:54 am

I am currently building an electric recirculating biab type system but with a perforated pot instead of a bag. I bought a much larger kettle than I need in hopes of doing full volume mashing. Anyone have a formula for knowing how much to start out with? I know that boil off will vary but at least a ball park number would be great. What do you guys start out with for a typical 5gallon batch?
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Re: Full Volume Mash?

Post by GuingesRock » Sat Mar 08, 2014 4:02 pm

Barr wrote:I am currently building an electric recirculating biab type system but with a perforated pot instead of a bag. I bought a much larger kettle than I need in hopes of doing full volume mashing. Anyone have a formula for knowing how much to start out with? I know that boil off will vary but at least a ball park number would be great. What do you guys start out with for a typical 5gallon batch?
Not sure what kind of formula you are looking for Leslie. I can't remember if you use BeerSmith but if you pick one of the BIAB equipment profiles and modify it for your equipment, it should give you mash volumes and strike water required etc.

:cheers2:

I have a 20 gal pot for 10 - 12 gal batch and it does very nicely.
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Re: Full Volume Mash?

Post by redoubt » Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:53 pm

Barr wrote:I am currently building an electric recirculating biab type system but with a perforated pot instead of a bag. I bought a much larger kettle than I need in hopes of doing full volume mashing. Anyone have a formula for knowing how much to start out with? I know that boil off will vary but at least a ball park number would be great. What do you guys start out with for a typical 5gallon batch?
Les, I'm late to the party, here, and I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for but...

This is how HPSauce explained figuring out the amount of water needed when we started with full-volume:

1. Take your target bottling volume.
2. Add to that figure 1L per kg of grain.
3. Add estimated boil-off.
4. Add estimated loss to trub.

As an example, for a 23L batch on our system, we'd use these numbers to figure out the full volume:

1. 23L
2. +6.35L (total grain of 6.35kg)
3. +3.9L (boil-off = 16-17% (of the 23L bottling volume))
4. +3.5L (loss to trub/deadspace)

Total volume = 36.75L

On the first brew on our system, we estimated some of the numbers (e.g., a 10% boil-off which was way off but a good place to start) and we forgot about others (e.g., loss to trub/deadspace). It still produced a good, solid beer, but we needed to top it up with water in the fermenter and it was a wee bit stronger than expected. We hammered out the numbers for our system over the second and third brews and now BeerSmith does all that pesky calculating for us.

YMMV, but I don't think we'd've had as easy a time sorting out our numbers for BeerSmith on new equipment if we hadn't had this as a starting point. I actually still use this calculation with every recipe to make sure BS isn't leading me astray.

:cheers2:
Kirsten

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