Glycol line chiller

[Follows]

Does anyone have any experience with running glycol chilled beer lines from a refrigerator to remote taps?

I have a 2 keg keezer and I want to go to one that will hold 4 kegs, as an alternative to the usual keezer build, I was thinking of putting the keezer in the basement and running lines up to my main floor. These Kalinka chillers will do 25' of line. Just wondering how well they work and how often the lines will need to be cleaned.
http://www.kegworks.com/25-glycol-draft ... 81-p175879

Regards
Scott

[mr x]

I would think that would work fine, but you will also need to buy the insulated line, and consider your length and serving pressure carefully. I wouldn't think glycol lines need to be cleaned that often if at all, but Om not 100% on that.

[bluenose]

I could buy a lot of other stuff for $1,000

I think the stuff in those blue freezer packs are glycol... why not just open a few of those up and fill some tubing with it, then recirculate it from your keezer to your taps

assuming the glycol lines are a closed loop, I also doubt they need to be cleaned

or I could be way off

[GAM]

I could buy a lot of other stuff for $1,000

I think the stuff in those blue freezer packs are glycol... why not just open a few of those up and fill some tubing with it, then recirculate it from your keezer to your taps

assuming the glycol lines are a closed loop, I also doubt they need to be cleaned

or I could be way off

That sounds right for cleaning. You could use plumbing anti-freeze should be cheap. How were you planning to plumb this?

Sandy

[bluenose]

How were you planning to plumb this?

see, that's where my brilliant plan comes to a halt... I'm an idea guy, I leave it to others to implement them

[mr x]

Pretty simple. Pond pump and a bucket.

[bluenose]

it might also help if it went through an immersion chiller before heading back up to the taps

[GAM]

I have no experience, but is there no evaporation? I was thinking a metallic coil in the fridge and line inside line to the tap with a return of some sort.

Sandy

[bluenose]

I think some of the commercial guys put the beer line and glycol lines together in pipe insulation for the duration of the loop.

The metallic coil inside the cooling area is the way I'd go too.

Connect the in and out lines to the pond pump in a closed loop and Bob's your uncle. You may have to top up the glycol every so often if it evaporates.

[mr x]

The return is built into the insulated tube bundle. You could try to completely close loop it, but you may have a problem with air bubbles over time. Could be tricky/messy to bleed the system before running.

[Stusbrews]

An expansion chamber/ air trap/bleed point at the top might be a good plan as well....thats a lot of cold glycol in a small pipe....busted glycol pipes in the wall wouldnt be good.

[HPhunter]

I can probably find you a piece of commercial beer line that came with one of those chillers. My buddy had a length of it he wasn't using. Like the guys are saying, a pond pump closed loop back to a container or coil would work fine.

[Follows]

I like the idea of a chiller in the refrig and using a pond pump to move the glycol around. With the loop open at the bottom, I wouldn't need to worry about pressure building in the tubing. I also was thinking about a temperature sensor up near the taps which could turn the pump on/off.

Any thoughts about using regular antifreeze in the line?

I was planning to use soft copper tubing next to the beer lines and wrapped with some sort of insulation. Jeff, if I could get a piece of commerical beer line I would really appreciate it.

[mr x]

Not sure about the antifreeze. You really shouldn't ever have a crossover, so i wouldn't worry about contamination or poisoning...

[AllanMar]

I wouldn't want to use regular antifreeze (Ethylene glycol) as it's super-poisonous and I wouldn't want tubs of it or risk it leaking anywhere (I have pets). There seems little risk of it actually getting in your beer tho, so your probably safe. I would use plumbing anti-freeze (Propylene glycol) as suggested above if your just using a fridge (although I'm not sure it would get cold enough to do the job, your going to want your gylcol atleast 4-5deg cooler then you want your beer). Most people place the glycol tub's in the freezer portion and it seems to work ok. Keep in mind the pump will also be heating the glycol up.... Plumbing anti-freeze will usually slush up around -10 or so (it's only BURST proof down to -50), Propylene glycol is what's used in commercial applications and is non toxic (you can even buy food grade stuff, they also give it to cattle as a treatment for something). Plumbing antifreeze usually uses ethanol too, so it can evaporate as well. If you get a commercial glycol chiller DONT use plumbing antifreeze as it's likely to slush up and ruin the pump.

I've looked in to this a fair bit as we are currently in the progress of building a DIY glycol chiller for a fermentation chamber (because we over do everything....). Our plan is probably to use Propylene glycol they use in boiler systems (as you can get it in higher concentrations for a reasonable price).

[gyorke]

I have this setup in my house right now and like how it worked out. http://www.brewnosers.org/forums/viewto ... 9419#p9419" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; It been through a couple changes since these pics were posted.

I am using 1/2 hose bundled with my 1/4 bevseal ultra line in 2" hot water pipe insulation. The larger diameter beer line is needed to maintain a balance while going the 11ft up to the taps. The bevseal is used so there is no plastic taste if the beer sits for a few days in that much line.

I have a small fountain pump in a water reservoir in my keezer. Keeping the reservoir in the keezer helps to keep the water at temperature. I tried having an insulated reservoir outside but the water was warming too much. Having the reservoir in the keezer can increase condensation so make sure it is sealed well. I chose water because it has better heat exchange than glycol and my system is not below freezing.

I am using a very small fountain pump so a sealed cooling hose with both ends under water is needed so the pump only needs to move the water not actually lift it. I have a valved off T where I can attach a garden hose to charge the cooling hose. There must be no air in the hoses as these will collect at the top of the line and the flow will stop. Keeping the pump running I have no problems with air bubbles and any air that is in the system will collect in the headspace of the reservoir.

My taps are about 5F warmer than my keezer but that's fine with me.

[Jayme]

I chose water because it has better heat exchange than glycol

^ this. It's been a while since I crunched the numbers, but we use a glycol heat exchanger at work that we ended up using a water/glycol mix. The power capability I do remember, and distilled water was 20,000 Watts, glycol was 5,000 Watts. Long story short, you're probably better off just going with water. You wouldn't have to keep it as cold which saves energy costs, and wouldn't have to buy glycol/worry about toxicity (if using Ethylene glycol).

[AllanMar]

I chose water because it has better heat exchange than glycol

^ this. It's been a while since I crunched the numbers, but we use a glycol heat exchanger at work that we ended up using a water/glycol mix. The power capability I do remember, and distilled water was 20,000 Watts, glycol was 5,000 Watts. Long story short, you're probably better off just going with water. You wouldn't have to keep it as cold which saves energy costs, and wouldn't have to buy glycol/worry about toxicity (if using Ethylene glycol).

Even if you use glycol you need to mix it with water. Usually a 30-35% mix or so for commercial chillers(RV stuff is usually like 20-30%), otherwise you get such poor heat transfer. At 30-35% the heat transfer between glycol and water is not awful, especially for the RV antifreeze concentrations you buy. You mix as much water as you can to get the freeze point you need.

If you don't need the freezing protection then absolutely don't bother with glycol.

[Hermanus02]

Hi, I have been looking for information on Glycol chillers on the web. I am trying to repair the chillers. Does anyone know the ideal water and glycol ratio for these chillers and can a glycol chiller go sub zero deg C?

[mr x]

Repairing chillers will require parts and gear that you'll most likely need a repair shop to do.

[Downs]

This thread is of interest to me ..

the bar I built with the tower I have has stainless lines in it for a glycol chiller
however its wayyy out of my budget to spend a grand on one

i really like the water resevoir idea with an aquarian pump
probably over my head to do but perhaps

interesting ive been running without anything for a couple months now
my lines run about 6 feet from the keezer to the taps
i have the lines insulated

i tend to have to pour maybe a 1/4 of a pint into a glass to throw away before i pour a drinkable pint
this is only when she hasnt been used in awhile
when i am pouring pints all night it is fine

i have my temp controller set to 4 degrees
which interestingly enough was too cold before, would freeze beer in the lines
this doesnt happen with the new setup