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I think this will be my next brew.

Recipe: Smoke & Hops Imperial Red
Brewer: Keith Forbes
Style: Other Smoked Beer
TYPE: All Grain

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 53.98 l
Post Boil Volume: 47.32 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 44.00 l
Bottling Volume: 38.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.075 SG
Estimated Color: 18.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 50.3 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 74.5 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
64.31 l IPA\APA Water 1 -
15.22 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins Water Agent 2 -
7.67 g Epsom Salt (MgSO4) (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 3 -
4.64 g Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 4 -
20 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) CDN (2.0 SRM) Grain 5 59.5 %
10 lbs Smoked Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 6 29.7 %
2 lbs 8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 7 7.4 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 8 3.0 %
2.0 oz Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 9 0.4 %
1.00 oz Warrior [17.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 10 23.7 IBUs
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 11 -
1.00 oz Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 12 6.4 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 13 9.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 14 4.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 15 6.6 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 16 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 17 0.0 IBUs
2.0 pkg SafAle English Ale (DCL/Fermentis #S-04) Yeast 18 -


Mash Schedule: BIAB, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 33 lbs 10.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Saccharification Add 64.31 l of water at 161.8 F 152.1 F 75 min
Mash Out Heat to 168.0 F over 7 min 168.0 F 10 min

That's a lot of crystal malt for an IPA

What kind of smoked malt is it, beechwood?

I think the hops and that much smoked malt are quite likely to compete with one another.

LiverDance wrote:That's a lot of crystal malt for an IPA

It's a 10 gallon.

amartin wrote:What kind of smoked malt is it, beechwood?

Yea Beechwood. if it were Peat I'd have a hard time selling that to the drain.

Keith wrote:

LiverDance wrote:That's a lot of crystal malt for an IPA

It's a 10 gallon.

I only look at percentages never the mass.

jeffsmith wrote:I think the hops and that much smoked malt are quite likely to compete with one another.

but in a good way I wonder? Amarillo and Smoke seem like they would work well together.

Should be ok with 10%. The Stone Levitation is nearly 15% and love that beer.

I was reading in the malt book that crystal 60 is very prone to oxidation. It says something like, if you don't drink it quickly it will turn around and bite you. Double edged sword etc.

Don't do it Keith.

GuingesRock wrote:I was reading in the malt book that crystal 60 is very prone to oxidation. It says something like, if you don't drink it quickly it will turn around and bite you. Double edged sword etc.

Don't do it Keith.

I'm up for the risk. Plus beer doesn't generally last very long at my place.

jeffsmith wrote:I think the hops and that much smoked malt are quite likely to compete with one another.

I'm looking for a hoppy beer with a smokey finish. Any suggestions?

Do a 5g as a trial. Don't want 10g of crap.

Sandy

GuingesRock wrote:I was reading in the malt book that crystal 60 is very prone to oxidation. It says something like, if you don't drink it quickly it will turn around and bite you. Double edged sword etc.

Don't do it Keith.

Really? Bairds seems to suggest otherwise?

Caramalts are used to give colour and flavour to pale Lager beers but should be used with care to avoid making the beer too dark or giving it too cloying a flavour. They also change the oxidation - reduction state of a beer, and can therefore improve the stability of a beer by preventing the formation of oxidised (cardboard) flavours.

Crystal malts have been used in the brewing of Lager beers, but considerable care is required to ensure that whilst a distinctive flavour is achieved, the crystal flavour and colour does not become too dominant. In all beers they can help prevent the formation of oxidised (cardboard) flavours.

http://www.bairds-malt.co.uk/Roasted.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GAM wrote:Do a 5g as a trial. Don't want 10g of crap.

Sandy

That's encouraging

Jimmy, I'll find the quote for you this evening and copy it. Interesting the different information. I got the impression they were only talking about C60.

I don't know if it's oxidation, but I think with IPAs crystal malts (especially darker ones) are supposed to take on a dark fruit character as it ages. In some beers that's great, but it can overshadow the hops. I forget the details, it's something I read in Mitch Steele's IPA book, which is at home. I'll look it up later.

Isn't it quite common for 10-15% Crystal 60-120 in Red's? Wouldn't this apply to Hoppy Reds as well?

Page 25 Malt Book. Based on an interview with Jon Cutler …

Jon’s least favorite malt is C60, but he also recognizes it is essential to craft brewing. “It has great character and is the quintessential malt for American Pale Ale brewing but is prone to oxidation within a very short space of time. There’s nothing worse than the ribey*, oxidized C-60 flavour. It’s the perfect middle ground malt but it is a catch 22. It can make a perfect beer but it can also break it. You only have so long before it comes back and bites you in the ass.”

*Ribes is a British flavour descriptor for bruised tomato or blackcurrent leaves. It is associated with a catty flavour.

I think the issue that most of us are having is in assuming (based on the strength, hop level and your general enthusiasm for hops) that this is supposed to be a red ale - IPA crossover. If that's the case, then you'll want to keep in mind that any crossover is going to involve compromises on both styles, in which case you'd probably want to use less crystal malt then you'd normally use in a red ale. However, if it's supposed to be a red ale first with the hops and malt taking more or less equal presence, then the crystal malt levels are probably fine.

yea I'm looking to brew something along the lines of a Smoked imperial levitation or a smoked tall poppy. My big questions is how much smoked malt to use.

I found this on BYO while researching tonight which I think answers my question. I think I'm going to drop my smoked malt down to 20% in this recipe and replace the difference with a Vienna malt, will up the Smoke malt based on how this beer turns out.

When brewing with the milder rauchmalz, even a small amount will give a hint of smoke. Using from 1 to 5% rauchmalz will yield a beer with smoky highlights that accentuate the other flavors in the beer. At around 25% rauchmalz, the beer will have a definite smoky character that stands out, but doesn’t dominate the beer’s flavor and aroma. This is a nice level for smoked porters, if you want both the smoke and dark grains to be on near equal footing. At around 50% rauchmalz, you will have a distinctively smoky beer. The smoke will not completely overpower the other flavors in the beer, but it will be the dominant one. At this level, the smoke intensity will be similar to that of the beers produced by Schlenkerla Brewery. From there, you can scale the smoke malt all the way to 100% of the grist. I’ve made beers with around 98% rauchmalz (and just a little CaraMunich®) and they have been smoky, but not over-the-top for a smoked beer lover.

Here is the link.
http://byo.com/brown-ale/item/1720-smoked-beer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nash or Jeff, I know you've worked with Beechwood Smoked Malt. Any recommendations while using it?

Keith wrote:Nash or Jeff, I know you've worked with Beechwood Smoked Malt. Any recommendations while using it?

Make Rauchbier or Smoked Porter with it

20% rauch is a good starting point for almost any smoked beer. I don't think I'd make a hoppy smoked brew but have at 'er, it's only 10 gallons, maybe it'll be a weiner. I agree with the others too, all that crystal is a bad idea, unless you like that sort of thing! Not sure if you had Desecration at RB or not but I used ~4% LIGHT crystal in it.

NASH wrote:

Keith wrote:Nash or Jeff, I know you've worked with Beechwood Smoked Malt. Any recommendations while using it?

Make Rauchbier or Smoked Porter with it

20% rauch is a good starting point for almost any smoked beer. I don't think I'd make a hoppy smoked brew but have at 'er, it's only 10 gallons, maybe it'll be a weiner. I agree with the others too, all that crystal is a bad idea, unless you like that sort of thing! Not sure if you had Desecration at RB or not but I used ~4% LIGHT crystal in it.

Smoked Porter is on the list of brews to fuck up. Right now sitting on 10 gallons of Robust porter.

As for that much Crystal, the Levitation clone I brew from time to time has in around 15% Crystal Malts which I love and dialed back from that. However I've fucked up so many reds in the past I figure I can cover up flaws with Smoke and Hops.

I just adjusted the grain build. Lowered the Crystal and Smoke, and increased the pale.

Recipe: Smoke & Hops Imperial Red
Brewer: Keith Forbes
Style: Other Smoked Beer
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 53.98 l
Post Boil Volume: 47.32 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 44.00 l
Bottling Volume: 38.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.068 SG
Estimated Color: 13.9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 53.4 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 74.5 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
63.34 l IPA\APA Water 1 -
15.22 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins Water Agent 2 -
7.67 g Epsom Salt (MgSO4) (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 3 -
4.64 g Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 4 -
22 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) CDN (2.0 SRM) Grain 5 73.0 %
6 lbs Smoked Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 6 19.9 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 7 5.0 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 8 1.7 %
2.0 oz Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 9 0.4 %
1.00 oz Warrior [17.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 10 25.2 IBUs
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 11 -
1.00 oz Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 12 6.8 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 13 9.5 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 14 4.9 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 15 7.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 16 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 17 0.0 IBUs
2.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) Yeast 18 -


Mash Schedule: BIAB, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 30 lbs 2.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Saccharification Add 63.34 l of water at 161.1 F 152.1 F 75 min
Mash Out Heat to 168.0 F over 7 min 168.0 F 10 min

Sparge: If steeping, remove grains, and prepare to boil wort
Notes: