“Champagne Cascade”

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GuingesRock
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“Champagne Cascade”

Post by GuingesRock » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:03 pm

I was discussing with TonyL on here about Mitch Steel's account of the old IPA (that the gentry drank) being like fine champagne, high ABV, very pale colour (they used something called white malt, kilned at low temperatures) fine bubbles and nice clarity.

That got me thinking up a brew for this weekend.

I looked into grains, and Everwood Ave has Superior Pilsen Malt which sounds as though it would be just the thing.
FLAVOR: Subtle Malty, Delicately Sweet. Very light colored base malt. Produces exceptionally clear, crisp wort. Pilsen Malt has a slightly lower protein level than 2-Row Brewers Malt.
For 10 gallons, I was thinking a simple grain bill of half a sack of Pilsen (27.5 lbs) and a simple hopping schedule of 1 lb Cascade leaf hops for 15 minutes (or maybe 2 lbs for 10 mins) as per my happy hophead beer.

I have never used Pilsen.

I don't know if I should use some kind of clarifying agent. My beers usually clear pretty well. I’ve never used anything like that and don’t know how to.

I think I get the fine bubbles with my real-ale simulation technique. It will end up being a real-ale type of beer and a long way off the old style IPA which was aged in barrels for a long time. Also I won't be dry hopping, I'm not much of a dry hopper, but I leave all my hops in for the ferment as my alternative to that. I know theoretically the CO2 bubbles off some of it.

Not the same beer as the gentry's old IPA, but I like the idea of a late hopped (hop bursted), light coloured, hoppy, Champagne like beer.

Anyone feel like helping out with the design. Is that Pilsen going to do the trick? do I mash it like I would Marris Otter? what could I use to make it sparklingly clear? and how should I use it?

I’ll post a picture of a glass of it on a table (with me under the table :) ) when it’s ready.
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Re: “Champagne Cascade”

Post by hogie » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:45 pm

Just a quick note since you say this is your first time brewing with pilsner malt. Be sure to boil for at least 90mins to get rid of all the DMS. Otherwise, you may end up with canned-corn flavoured "champagne"

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Re: “Champagne Cascade”

Post by GuingesRock » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:47 pm

Thanks Hogie! Will do.
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Re: “Champagne Cascade”

Post by mr x » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:55 pm

I wonder if that really is true, or is an incorrect extrapolation from professional brew kettles with hoods where a lot of condensate gets recycled back into the kettle.
At Alexander Keith's we follow the recipes first developed by the great brewmaster to the absolute letter. :wtf:

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Re: “Champagne Cascade”

Post by hogie » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:58 pm

mr x wrote:I wonder if that really is true, or is an incorrect extrapolation from professional brew kettles with hoods where a lot of condensate gets recycled back into the kettle.
Hmm. I do know that I can smell corn in the kettle during the first part of the boil...

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Re: “Champagne Cascade”

Post by GuingesRock » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:07 pm

Nice article on late hopping/hop bursting: http://www.mrmalty.com/late_hopping.php

Maybe I should use German Pilsner instead?
-Mark
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Re: “Champagne Cascade”

Post by NASH » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:49 am

mr x wrote:I wonder if that really is true, or is an incorrect extrapolation from professional brew kettles with hoods where a lot of condensate gets recycled back into the kettle.
A condensate trap takes care of it all on professional kettles. If it doesn't have a trap, it's not professional :lol: :cheers2:

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Re: “Champagne Cascade”

Post by GuingesRock » Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:23 am

I ferment in the brew kettle for one week and leave all the hops in there too. Do you think I can use a whirfloc tablet in the last five minutes of the boil before I do that? I've been trying to Google it, but everyone keeps talking about racking and carboys. I think it might work ok.
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Re: “Champagne Cascade”

Post by hogie » Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:27 am

I usually add my whirfloc with 20mins left. I add 2 for a 40L batch.

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Re: “Champagne Cascade”

Post by GuingesRock » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:25 pm

I Guess Dave can spare the Pilsen (thanks) so I'm making it this weekend :banana:

I'll do a 90 min non-insulated (free range) mash, starting at 149F and boil 90 mins too.
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Re: “Champagne Cascade”

Post by GuingesRock » Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:04 pm

Coming up to the boil now + 1lb bag Cascade leaf for the 15 min addition. Really pale sweet liquor (unboiled wort). I think this might work. Thanks for your help Hogie…Thanks also Dave for the grain/input.
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Re: “Champagne Cascade”

Post by GuingesRock » Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:28 pm

Look what the NG “Irish Moss” tablets are doing to my post boil SG sample as it approaches room temp for testing. That’s crazy!!!!
I used 2 tablets for 10 Gal like Hogie said to (boiled 15 mins).
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Re: “Champagne Cascade”

Post by GuingesRock » Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:22 pm

The OG sample still keeps settling and clearing.

Here is the "champagne Cascade" OG sample, 27.5 lbs Pilsen (SRM 1) in 10G with irish moss, next to a glass of #16 extra beer, 27.5 lbs MO (SRM 3) in 10G, without Irish moss. #16 Extra will become crystal clear over the next week, it’s only had 1 week in the keg. I think when the “champagne cascade” is done, it should end up much lighter than the MO beer because the grain is only SRM 1. I'll post a picture when it is done.

At top of picture...PDF recipe with revised strike temp and 2 whirfloc.
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Re: “Champagne Cascade”

Post by GuingesRock » Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:00 am

Champers anyone?

Just kegged it. 6 ½ days from grain to glass. A bit of yeast went through into the keg but I’m expecting it to clear in a few days. The glass on the left was run through a coffee filter so I can get an idea of the final colour and clarity.

The taste is awesome already! I can only imagine how it will be in another 10 days. I think might have struck gold with this one (and I’m sober, it’s breakfast time). Very floral taste and aroma with a nice bitterness that is more in the after taste. Nice and dry. It slips down nicely, which could be dangerous. The attenuation was higher than anticipated (OG 1.07, FG 1.007, ABV 8.6%). That Canadian Pilsen that I got from you Dave is a nice subtle grain that doesn’t overpower the hops, and I agree it is crisp and fresh, with a really pale colour.

This might end up being my competition beer if I ever get around to entering a competition. I don’t know what class it would have to go in. It seems to be out of style for everything. For an imperial IPA the colour is way too light. Does that matter?
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Re: “Champagne Cascade”

Post by GuingesRock » Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:41 pm

This stuff is Nice! It's been in the keg for 6 days (11 days since it was brewed) and already it is quite clear. We had some friends around this afternoon, and they are enjoying it too. They have decided they will have to stay the night and we ordered pizza. I’m not sure if I’m washing the sheets for them as I think they might be too drunk to notice :)

It’s a great beside the pool beer, but it isn’t champagne!

Yay! if you swill it around, it has the fine bubbles.

I'm making it again! but next time I might use German pilsner for some extra oomph, even if it is a bit darker. I love the colour and the hop flavour but I might want to add a bit more grain character...Not sure about doing that though.
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Re: “Champagne Cascade”

Post by jtmwhyte » Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:36 pm

Looks very nice

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Re: “Champagne Cascade”

Post by GuingesRock » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:14 am

jtmwhyte wrote:Looks very nice

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Thank you!, I was thinking if I toned the ABV down to 4.3 % maybe, rather than 8.6%, the colour would be very pale with the greatly reduced grain bill, and it would be even more unique. Novelty is good sometimes.

As it is, at 8.6%, it tastes really nice and goes down too well, and so people usually end up getting really drunk on it. Notice everyone in the background in the pictures is having a swig of it (that wasn't deliberate). The morning after, the guy in the picture kept talking about those "micro-bubbles" still being in his head (he had a headache) I saw him at the beach yesterday and he's working on a song about "the bubbles" for his rock band (The Sorrys).

On a safety note: the little boy with his dad, is just going with him to put his life jacket on.
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Re: “Champagne Cascade”

Post by GuingesRock » Sat Aug 03, 2013 2:28 pm

The label I made for it:
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Re: “Champagne Cascade”

Post by GuingesRock » Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:13 pm

I’m doing a Champagne Cascade Blonde – Real Ale, today. ABV 5%. I’m planning to get the fermentation temperature just right with my new modified fermenting pot with the built in cooling coil. It’s "in style" for a blonde. I’m excited, and if it’s good enough, I’d like to bring a keg to Hoptoberfest.
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Re: “Champagne Cascade”

Post by jtmwhyte » Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:45 pm

Mark,

The rumors are true... you CAN make beer under 9%! In all seriousness your progression and documentation has been awesome. Keep up the updates! I look forward to trying this at Hoptoberfest.
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I will drain that glass again.
Such hilarious visions clamber
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Come to life and fade away;
What care I how time advances?
I am drinking ale today." ~ Poe

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Re: “Champagne Cascade”

Post by GuingesRock » Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:50 pm

Thanks Trevor :)

You started it all. :lol:
-Mark
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Re: “Champagne Cascade”

Post by CartoonCod » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:49 pm

Wow, 5%. I could drink a full pint of that and still be able to drive home!

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Re: “Champagne Cascade”

Post by GuingesRock » Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:00 pm

CartoonCod wrote:Wow, 5%. I could drink a full pint of that and still be able to drive home!
:lol:

Sorry :( Was it a bit swervy going home, that day you came to try my beer for me. :lol:
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Re: “Champagne Cascade”

Post by CartoonCod » Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:08 pm

It wasn't too bad thanks to the slow service at the pub.

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