Cascade Celebration Recipe Question

[GillettBreweryCnslt]

Hey Guys and Gals.

I am working on a recipe for a customer and I have a quick question. They want me to create a 10 gallon version of this recipe:

http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/ ... elebration" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I only have pellet hops (they are aware of that) and I just want to know if there is anything I need to change when switching this from leaf hops to pellet hops. I am basing my changes on maintaining the IBUs that are derived from the leaf hops and I assume that is correct way of doing it. When I scale it I'm looking at 101 IBU and 1.5 lbs of hops, just seems like a lot of hops for a 10 gallon batch. Thoughts?

Thanks

[LiverDance]

Sounds like what I would do. 1.5lbs for a 10 gallon batch with 110IBU's and 8oz of dry hops sounds about right to me. I hover between 1 and 2 lbs for a nice hoppy IIPA

[GuingesRock]

I do that kind of thing a lot with Cascade too. The mash hop and the dry hop will give hardly any bitterness but will give lots of flavour. It looks very tasty. I seem to remember you need 10% more pellet hops when substituting them for leaf hops. Beersmith isn't good at predicting bitterness for FWH or mash hop, there is a lot of disagreement on calculations of bitterness with those methods, basically no one really knows. I think it looks really good and won't be too bitter.

[LiverDance]

Mark, what method gives you the best hop flavor? Also which gives you the best aroma?

[GuingesRock]

Brian, Talking about 10 gal batches, I have to say that 1lb of hops (pellet or leaf) in FWH or mash hop gives the best flavour (incredible) and I use FWH rather than mash hopping more because you get bitterness as well and it is a nice soft bitterness as they say. If I am being really extravagant with the hops, and don't want to end up with bitterness off the scale, I will put 8 oz- 1lb pellet hops in the mash, as well using other hopping methods. The second part of the question is a bit harder for me. I think probably late hopping. I really like chucking a pound or two of Cascade leaf in the last 10-15 mins and then chilling. I'm not much of a dry hopper, but I leave all my hops in for the ferment (except of course the mash hops) as my alternative to that. I know theoretically the CO2 bubbles off some of it.

[GuingesRock]

Mark, what method gives you the best hop flavor? Also which gives you the best aroma?

Brian, I’ve been pondering this. Especially the aroma question. What ways do you find give the you A) the best flavour and B) the best aroma? I have a feeling you might say dry hopping in there somewhere.

[LiverDance]

Mark, what method gives you the best hop flavor? Also which gives you the best aroma?

Brian, I’ve been pondering this. Especially the aroma question. What ways do you find give the you A) the best flavour and B) the best aroma? I have a feeling you might say dry hopping in there somewhere.

Usually I plan on all my flavor from a 20 or 10 minute addition. The aroma comes from dry hopping but I'm looking for alternatives as dry hopping is a pain to me. I also see it as a bit of a waste of hops. I think I'm gonna save all my current dry hops and make a beer out of them to see what kind of bitterness and flavor I can get.

[GuingesRock]

That’s interesting. I boil my hops and by leaving them in for the ferment, follow that with an alcohol extraction. You are talking about doing that in reverse.

My problem is I haven’t paid enough attention to aroma, and I should have done. I hone right in on the taste. You’ve brought my attention to that and I will take note of the aroma of every beer from now on.

I have a feeling that the 10 minute late addition of 1 lb Hop Union nitrogen flushed and sealed cascade leaf hops (5 gal, no other hop additions), chilling and then leaving them in during the ferment gave me a good aroma as well as a great taste and a good bitterness, and I have been missing that aroma since I have been doing more FWH.

I wonder if this might be something worth your trying as an alternative to dry hopping. I have always left my hops in for the ferment so I can’t compare with any other way. You would have the experience to know if it was any good.

[GuingesRock]

Just been googling manufacture of perfumes. Ethanol extraction of aroma oils from dried flowers is one method used. That fits with what you say about dry hopping.

I know someone online who steeps hops in cheap vodka and adds his "hop vodka" to his beer. I can find links to his technique if anyone is interested.

Another thing is the sense of smell is a large part of taste. People who lose their sense of smell taste very little. That makes me think two things: A) aroma might be very important for the taste of the beer and B) if it tastes very good…then it probably does have a good aroma? When they say "flavour and aroma" it might be correct that they are grouped together. I've noticed sometimes the two words are used interchangeably eg. "aroma hops"

[LiverDance]

I usually leave the hops in the fermentor as well and have done massize late hop additions as you mentioned however i'm always looking for another way to improve things Most of my dry hopping is done directly in the keg but maybe I'll have to try doing a dry hop in secondary and seeing if that gets me more aroma.

[GuingesRock]

Found the Hop Vodka link: Bob Stemski's basic brewing radio podcast.

http://ec.libsyn.com/p/c/e/d/ced10842b7 ... id=4326025

(half a cup of vodka in a keg of beer will hardly change the ABV)

[GuingesRock]

You tried hop stands and all that stuff?

[LiverDance]

You tried hop stands and all that stuff?

hop stands are my next project. When I get my electric brew setup finalized I can set it to a temp (say 180) and leave it for 30-45mins or so.