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Brewing this week. Stay tuned for details over the next couple days.

OK, this recipe will have a slightly different design approach. Instead of malt bill/yeast/bitterness, we are going to start with water. I would say that this beer really won't be a good approximation of the original without hardening the water. Keith's was definitely doing this in the 40's, but the older recipes don't specify salts for the stout, although they do use Davison Salt for some of their other beers (curiously, these salted beers were also noted as being colored in the kettle). I am going with the assumption that the stout water was hardened in the older recipes as well. Another interesting note is that they were using both 'salt' and 'Burton salt' in those mid 40's recipes.

Sooooo, not having nearly enough experience to decipher the mash volumes/addition rates, I enlisted the help of a knowledgeable brewer for assistance. And here was the advice given:

From what I can see they added a shitload of 'burton salts' and 'salt', I think they had a decent profile. Halifax water is soft as fuck too, and so is Amherst water so I think the NG water is likely somewhat similar.

So here's what I'd do:

Add to your water:
1.2g/US gallon gypsum
0.9g/US gallon Epsom salts
0.1g/US gallon baking soda
0.1g/US gallon calcium chloride
0.3g/US gallon chalk

This will add:
113ppm Calcium
23ppm Magnesium
7ppm sodium
270ppm Sulfate
13ppm chloride
66ppm Carbonate


Burton On Trent water is:
268ppm Calcium
62ppm Magnesium
30ppm sodium
638ppm Sulfate
36ppm chloride
141ppm Carbonate


Halifax water is:
5.3ppm Calcium
3.9ppm Magnesium
13ppm sodium
8ppm Sulfate
7.4ppm chloride
24.4ppm Carbonate


I'd add about 1/3 of this blend to the mash and the remaining 2/3 to the kettle after you develop a rolling boil. These salts will soften the effect of the hop bitterness dramatically which is why they would have used them. They don't say where they add it but the beer will be better if you do as I say, LOL.

That isn't written in stone, but I'll bet it's a pretty good guess, and will be my starting point.

That's not written in stone, but seeing as they know Amherst water and say "fuck" a lot, one can guess who wrote it.

Oh no, no, no, no, it's not like that at all.

Brewnoser wrote:That's not written in stone, but seeing as they know Amherst water and say "fuck" a lot, one can guess who wrote it.

I was thinking the same thing myself.

mr x wrote:

This will add:
113ppm Calcium
23ppm Magnesium
7ppm sodium
270ppm Sulfate
13ppm chloride
66ppm Carbonate


Burton On Trent water is:
268ppm Calcium
62ppm Magnesium
30ppm sodium
638ppm Sulfate
36ppm chloride
141ppm Carbonate


Halifax water is:
5.3ppm Calcium
3.9ppm Magnesium
13ppm sodium
8ppm Sulfate
7.4ppm chloride
24.4ppm Carbonate

That isn't written in stone, but I'll bet it's a pretty good guess, and will be my starting point.

I have to dig out my water test results. My (deep well) water is certainly not "soft as fuck" and would come in a lot closer to the Burton numbers than Halifax. It also has significant Iron and Manganese - don't know what those would do to a beer, but so far I haven't noticed a problem (the Manganese Sulfate is awful in the fresh water).

The well water around HRM is definitely pretty hard - mostly granite bedrock in the southern half of the province, full of metals. But Halifax city water is from Pockwock, surface water, so it likely has some different chemistry - I can't say what that might be for sure...

It's fairly soft. I think you can still get the water reports online.

Working backwards from what I normally do, the next item will be the hops. Boil time for this beer will be 2.5 hours. I think this is somewhat significant to get melanoidan formation in the beer. It's a bit of a guess to figure out the IBU's, but I think 45-50 is a good place to start. That may be a bit low or high, but still not out of the question - it's all on the AA of the hops they used, which is a guess within a certain range. I am using the hopping schedule that was fairly detailed in the mid 40's version of this beer. The hops were added in three stages - 1.5 hours, 1 hour, and 40 minutes. And going with the original proportions, I am thinking this is a close approximation:

1.53 oz Cluster [4.50 %] (90 min) Hops 12.3 IBU
4.09 oz Goldings, East Kent [2.50 %] (60 min) Hops 17.1 IBU
3.58 oz Goldings, East Kent [2.50 %] (40 min) Hops 13.1 IBU

Now, the Cluster I have are 7.5%AA, so that is one discrepancy. The other is that over 80% of the EKG should be BC Fuggles. But I think that the way they are used in this recipe, that is a very minor deviation. As far as the Cluster are concerned, I estimate them to be at 4.5%AA at that time in history. As the above hopping schedule stands, it is 42.5 IBU. I think this may be on the low end of the range of IBU that they would have to deal with, so I am leaving the Cluster at 1.53 oz @ 7.5AA. That brings the beer up to 50. I've seen estimates of classic Guinness at 45 IBU, so I'm comfortable with 50.

On to the malt. The grain bill is pretty straight forward in some regards - base malt/black malt/crystal malt. But there are still some blanks that need to be filled in.

Base malt is six-row (89.2%). Period.

Black malt (7.2%). I am going to assume that this is black patent. There are inventory records that indicate 'burnt barley' and I believe this is today's black patent, or very close.

Crystal (3.6%). There's a wide range of crystals possible, but 70-80L would be a good estimate for flavour and and historical accuracy.

Another note of interest, AK was using coloring adjunct in the kettle for some of these stouts. Could it be that the burnt barley wasn't imparting enough color? I have read that turning the roasted malt to flour is important to get the right color and flavour for dry stouts. I will be doing this in the food processor. A bit of advice - do this outside. Black malt flour is very dusty, and will have a tendency to get on everything, especially in dry winter air.

Now for the gravities. In the oldest recipes, the FGs were all over the map from 1.028 to 1.018. By the mid 40's, we are consistent at 1.010, with an OG of 1.048. This sounds like a reasonable attenuation, although up to 1.012 would be good as well.

Mash temp of 152 is the target to get this attenuation.

mr x wrote: I have read that turning the roasted malt to flour is important to get the right color and flavour for dry stouts. I will be doing this in the food processor. A bit of advice - do this outside. Black malt flour is very dusty, and will have a tendency to get on everything, especially in dry winter air.

but not next to the propane burner where you have another batch of beer on the go. Flour blows up real good.

FYI, the Halifax water report is at http://www.halifax.ca/hrwc/documents/Typical2009.pdf

Yeast. Keith's was definitely getting their yeast from Molson in the early years of the 20th century. I have been told that Seibel has a strain that is thought to be Molson's, and a close approximation is wYeast 1272. I will not be using that strain for my first attempt. I am using a wYeast VSS 1469. It's relatively clean, so I think it will be good.

Here's the Black Patent turned into flour.

Well, now that fermentation is almost done, I can see why AK was coloring this beer throughout the years. It is not the dark color of any 'stout' I have ever had, more of a deep brown.

You need these to bottle that stuff up

http://halifax.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell ... Z250964738

I saw those, lol.

I wasn't so big on this beer for a while, but now that I'm into he second keg, I find I'm really enjoying it. Seems to make a great session beer.