Styrian Gold

[GuingesRock]

I’m working on a recipe which I’m going to call “Styrian Gold”

It’s supposed to fit the style of a blonde ale, unless anyone would recommend a different style that would fit better.

I will keg condition it so it has real ale characteristics.

5% ABV, for 10 Gal into kegs.

Grains: 18lbs 4.8 oz (1/3 bag) Bairds Marris Otter.

Hops:
8oz Styrian Goldings FWH
6oz Styrian Goldings flameout
2 oz Styrian Goldings dry hop in keg
= 1lb bag of pellet hops.

3 Sachets of US-05

Beersmith works out the IBUs to be 86, but I think it will be more like 35. In my previous brews, FWH is either so smooth that you don’t notice the IBUs, or Beersmith is totally wrong. I’ve read that none of these programs can calculate the bitterness from FWH as there is no reliable formula.

It’s kind of a culmination from experimenting with different brews along the same theme.

Any suggestions for improvement please?

[sleepyjamie]

Fwh still isomerizes and u should get all the ibus if I'm not mistaken.

[GuingesRock]

Fwh still isomerizes and u should get all the ibus if I'm not mistaken.

Yes maybe it is that bitter and it’s smooth. This afternoon I had a chance to compare one of my 1lb FWH brews vs. a 1lb late hop brew, and also got a second opinion, and it’s definitely quite a lot more bitter. I think I will rethink this and move maybe half of the FWH to late. Thanks.

[GuingesRock]

2 oz FWH
3 oz 10 min
4oz 5 min
5 oz 0 min
2 oz dry hop.

Gives an IBU of 28.8, OG 1.046, ABV 5%, 4.2 SRM.

The bitterness is just slightly over top end for a blonde, or is there a better style fit for this beer's ingredients if I tweaked the hops?

I wondered about an American Pale so I could have more bitterness, but the BJCP style guidelines say “American hops” and I want to use Styrian Goldings. Would it be a big problem for an American Pale Ale to have non American hops?

I’m not sure dry hopping is appropriate for a Blonde either. Let’s face it, I don’t know anything about Blondes (other than I like the one at the Port), it just seemed to fit the parameters (apart from the IBUs) on paper.

[mr x]

Nothing has to be by guidelines if you aren't entering a comp. Even then, boundaries can be pushed. Looks fine to me. That will be a damn hoppy beer!

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[GuingesRock]

Nothing has to be by guidelines if you aren't entering a comp. Even then, boundaries can be pushed. Looks fine to me. That will be a damn hoppy beer!

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4

Thanks, I might want to enter it, at least in a dummy/practice competition if it works out. Should I leave it as it is and call it a blonde do you think, or would I be better to up the IBUs and call it a pale ale. Ignoring personal taste preferences, what would make the most sense to a judge who had it in front of him/her, with that hop profile and 100% Marris Otter?

[mr x]

Pale ale I'd say.

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[GuingesRock]

Thanks...I'm on it.

[mr x]

I'm not sure I'd go too crazy on the IBUs with the gravity that low, hard to say. Things can get out of balance....

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[GuingesRock]

Thanks, that’s what I was thinking too, but I thought it might be ok to go crazy with the hop flavours with a pale ale. Correct me if I’m wrong on that.

Pale Ale?...

10 Gal batch.

100% Pilsner Malt, 18lbs 4.8 oz (1/3 bag)...Edit Marris Otter, not pilsner!

3 sachets US-05

Styrian Goldings pellet hops
3 oz - FWH
5 oz - 5 min
5 oz - 0 min
3 oz - dry hop.

IBU 41.4, OG 1.046, ABV 5%, 4.2 SRM.

[mr x]

I thought you were using MO?

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[GuingesRock]

Yes I am using MO. Thanks for pointing that out. It must be my bed time

Thanks for the help with this.

[GuingesRock]

Maybe with all the hops and the US-05, it should be an American IPA.

Should I slightly increase the malt character? I generally don’t like a lot of malt flavour, and normally find the Marris Otter to be enough for me, and I like the colour to be at the bottom end of the range.

The style guide says malt flavour should be low to medium, so I might be ok, but is this going to be “out of balance” with the high hoppiness and just Marris Otter?

This statement from below has me slightly worried: “although the malt backbone will support the strong hop character and provide the best balance”. Any suggestions about need for modification of the malt bill, and if modifications are necessary, how would you modify please? Also if any concerns about the hopping please let me know. Thanks.

14B. American IPA http://www.bjcp.org/styles04/Category14.php#style14B

Aroma: A prominent to intense hop aroma with a citrusy, floral, perfume-like, resinous, piney, and/or fruity character derived from American hops. Many versions are dry hopped and can have an additional grassy aroma, although this is not required. Some clean malty sweetness may be found in the background, but should be at a lower level than in English examples. Fruitiness, either from esters or hops, may also be detected in some versions, although a neutral fermentation character is also acceptable. Some alcohol may be noted.

Appearance: Color ranges from medium gold to medium reddish copper; some versions can have an orange-ish tint. Should be clear, although unfiltered dry-hopped versions may be a bit hazy. Good head stand should persist.

Flavor: Hop flavor is medium to high, and should reflect an American hop character with citrusy, floral, resinous, piney or fruity aspects. Medium-high to very high hop bitterness, although the malt backbone will support the strong hop character and provide the best balance. Malt flavor should be low to medium, and is generally clean and malty sweet although some caramel or toasty flavors are acceptable at low levels. No diacetyl. Low fruitiness is acceptable but not required. The bitterness may linger into the aftertaste but should not be harsh. Medium-dry to dry finish.

[mr x]

Do what you were going to do.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4

[jtmwhyte]

Maybe with all the hops and the US-05, it should be an American IPA.

Should I slightly increase the malt character? I generally don’t like a lot of malt flavour, and normally find the Marris Otter to be enough for me, and I like the colour to be at the bottom end of the range.

The style guide says malt flavour should be low to medium, so I might be ok, but is this going to be “out of balance” with the high hoppiness and just Marris Otter?

This statement from below has me slightly worried: “although the malt backbone will support the strong hop character and provide the best balance”. Any suggestions about need for modification of the malt bill, and if modifications are necessary, how would you modify please? Also if any concerns about the hopping please let me know. Thanks.

14B. American IPA http://www.bjcp.org/styles04/Category14.php#style14B

Aroma: A prominent to intense hop aroma with a citrusy, floral, perfume-like, resinous, piney, and/or fruity character derived from American hops. Many versions are dry hopped and can have an additional grassy aroma, although this is not required. Some clean malty sweetness may be found in the background, but should be at a lower level than in English examples. Fruitiness, either from esters or hops, may also be detected in some versions, although a neutral fermentation character is also acceptable. Some alcohol may be noted.

Appearance: Color ranges from medium gold to medium reddish copper; some versions can have an orange-ish tint. Should be clear, although unfiltered dry-hopped versions may be a bit hazy. Good head stand should persist.

Flavor: Hop flavor is medium to high, and should reflect an American hop character with citrusy, floral, resinous, piney or fruity aspects. Medium-high to very high hop bitterness, although the malt backbone will support the strong hop character and provide the best balance. Malt flavor should be low to medium, and is generally clean and malty sweet although some caramel or toasty flavors are acceptable at low levels. No diacetyl. Low fruitiness is acceptable but not required. The bitterness may linger into the aftertaste but should not be harsh. Medium-dry to dry finish.

You're overthinking it. Make your hoppy blonde ale and enjoy how awesome your borderless creation can be.

[adams81]

I'm not super experienced... but I think you should make the beer you want to make and figure out what category best fits it once it's in a glass and you're happy with it.

[GuingesRock]

Thank you Rob, Trevor and Geoff. There's a lot of wisdom and generosity in your comments.

At the same time I was confident that, on this site, if there were any glaring issues, someone would let me know.

Thanks again for the help. I'm glad I posted before proceeding, and I am happy with the resulting modifications. I think it will be the kind of beer I will like. If not I'll fiddle around with it and keep myself amused in the process.

[gm-]

I agree with what others have said, make the beer you want

If you are interested in competitions, I would pick a style, read the guidelines, books (designing great beers is a good one) and discussion on forums about that style and then give that style your best shot and submit it.

I was a bit disappointed when I sent in a beer that did not quite fit into a style category (maple rye blonde ale made entirely with maple sap instead of water, one of the best beers that I have ever made) and all the point deductions were because it was slightly too dark to be a blonde ale and a bit too boozy (7%) for that category. I was lot happier with a feedback that I got from an imperial ipa that I sent in, where the feedback actually pointed out a few flaws that I could improve next time I make it.

Brew on!
Jon

[mr x]

I'd say you would have been far better to have entered that blonde in the specialty beer category....

[gm-]

I'd say you would have been far better to have entered that blonde in the specialty beer category....

I did (23A), but they still judged it as a blonde with maple and rye added. Still got a decent score (39 if I remember correctly), but I was rather annoyed, if I had left out that it was my blonde ale recipe as a base it would probably have received higher score.

[mr x]

That's ridiculous. The whole point of that category is for beers outside the standard guidelines. Who judged that?

[gm-]

Have the score sheets at home somewhere, but it was at the MontreALERS comp.

[GuingesRock]

I agree with what others have said, make the beer you want

If you are interested in competitions, I would pick a style, read the guidelines, books (designing great beers is a good one) and discussion on forums about that style and then give that style your best shot and submit it.

I was a bit disappointed when I sent in a beer that did not quite fit into a style category (maple rye blonde ale made entirely with maple sap instead of water, one of the best beers that I have ever made) and all the point deductions were because it was slightly too dark to be a blonde ale and a bit too boozy (7%) for that category. I was lot happier with a feedback that I got from an imperial ipa that I sent in, where the feedback actually pointed out a few flaws that I could improve next time I make it.

Brew on!
Jon

Thanks for the excellent advice Jon, and for handing on your experience.

Brewing is a constant succession of neuroses…Style guidelines, fermentation temperature getting out of hand, nasty bugs ready to attack when you least expect it. You can’t even see the bugs, but THEY ARE THERE! and waiting to get you!

In the sixties people had pot to help them relax, in the seventies it was valium. What's a person supposed to do these days to relax!...I know! I’ll use two pounds of hops in this one

…But then! Maybe it’s the hops that are causing my paranoia. Even the hops are out to get me.

Ps. Latest:

10gal American IPA – “Styrian Gold”
OG 1.062, 55 IBU, 8.3 SRM, ABV 7% (I thought all the hops should have more alcohol to go with them)
24lb MO, 1lb Crystal 80
Pellet Styrian Goldings: 5oz FWH, 5oz 5min, 4oz 0min, 2oz DH = 1lb
3 sachets US-05


Pps. Started my research on Blondes, there isn’t much on it in brewing classic styles but I found a brief useful link:http://beersmith.com/blog/2013/03/21/bl ... eer-style/.
I think I am fairly up on IPAs, as I read the Mitch Steele IPA book (several times) and I can go back to it when I need to.

[GuingesRock]

Recipe change: I’m trying to give it some of the colours and malt flavours of Proper Job (shown below) which has redish/orange hues.

10gal American IPA – “Styrian Gold IPA”

OG 1.056, 59.8 IBU, 7.7 SRM, ABV 6.2%

18lbs 4.8oz MO, 4lbs Munich 10L, 8oz Crystal 80.

Pellet Styrian Goldings: 5oz FWH, 6oz 5min, 5oz 0min, = 1lb

3 sachets US-05

Please let me know if any suggestions for modifications/improvements.

Thanks.