Brewpump update

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bluenose
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Re: Brewpump update

Post by bluenose » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:31 pm

So what is the consensus on this little guy?
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Re: Brewpump update

Post by HappyHopper » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:53 pm

Seems to work nice I have it at my place I used it although not under the best circumstances (spruce beer, screen got clogged) if anyone needs it send me a message.
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Re: Brewpump update

Post by jason.loxton » Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:59 am

I recently purchased one of these pumps and am having issues with it. Wondering if anyone else is experiencing the similar.

First the good: It moves wort well. Has no problem pushing wort up a few feet and then through a 25' counter flow chiller.

Now the bad: It has a habit of arbitrarily shutting itself off. I am using it exclusively with my chiller. My plan was to run the wort through in a loop for 15 minutes prior to chilling to sterilize the chiller and hoses, and then use it to push wort through my chiller. (Pretty standard operations, I think). I have used the pump twice now. Both times it started automatically shutting itself off midway (multiple times). I think it is over heating and protecting itself. Needless to say, this is massively frustrating in the middle of the crucial final minutes of a boil. Once it shuts down, it will automatically restart itself after a period of some minutes (the first time it did this it created a heck of a mess, as I had the connections off and was fiddling with them). It does the same thing if you unplug it (i.e., turn it off--there is no switch unless you make one). I was brewing a 10 gallon batch and alternating the fill between two carboys to ensure consistency between them. Each time I plugged it back in, however, it would do nothing for several minutes (over five minutes in one case), and then suddenly kick back into action. Needless to say, this is not at all helpful (prolonging my chill session by a considerable period of time and resulting in a lot of swearing). When recirculating the wort for sterilization I had all valves fully open. When chilling the outflow valve on the pump was restricted, but the kettle vale was fully open. The bazooka screen was pretty clogged up at the very end of chilling, but I still had gravity flow the entire time, so I don`t think this was what was making the pump angry. The pump itself is wired to a 12v DC 2 amp laptop converter.

My set up is this:
-15 gallon OBK kettle with bazooka screen
-All hops in hop bags
-Pump mounted to the outlet of the kettle via camlocks, with flow controlled by a ball valve at the out flow side of the pump (kettle ball valves fully open) (The pump is a fair ways away from the heat source (an electric burner), so this isn`t adding sufficient extra heat to cause problems. There are several adapters and camlocks, etc, on my kettle, so it sticks out a fair ways from the kettle itself.)

I think is a link to specifics the pump (OBK's is a TopsFlo solar pump, and I think this is the same model): http://www.nasolarsolutions.com/Topflow ... opump.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In the description on this site it says:

"Over-temperature safety device

The TS5 Solar DC pump comes with an integrated over-temperature safety device which shuts off the pump electronics when reaching temperature over 110°C (230°F). When the temperature of the pumped fluid is below 95°C (203°F) the pump will function normally. The temperature of the electronic components is influenced by the temperature of the pumped media as well as by the speed setting. After reaching a critical temperature 95°C (203°F) the pump will lower its speed automatically in order to avoid a total shutdown. However, if the temperature continues to rise (e.g. caused by too hot pumped media), the pump will eventually shut down completely. After cooling down, the pump will restart automatically."

And:

"Soft start-up

The TS5 Solar DC pump has a soft start-up feature which reduces high in-rush current. When the photovoltaic panel provides sufficient power, the pump goes through the alignment phase by turning the rotor into the position required for start-up. The processor then waits until the capacitor is sufficiently charged. This enables a start-up with minimal power (less than two watt). Cycling due to unsuccessful attempts is minimized. Even after prolonged shut-down, the pump will start reliably.`

I am wondering if these two features are the source of my issues. If so, this is a serious problem for its use in brewing, I think. (Beyond maybe in a HERMS/RIMS set up.)

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Re: Brewpump update

Post by bluenose » Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:02 pm

would it help to have a little fan blowing directly on it?
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Re: Brewpump update

Post by jason.loxton » Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:06 pm

Maybe. (Although it would have to be a pretty serious fan, I think.) But that's sort of beside the point. I don't want the extra electronics, and it is sold as "Rated at 110°C (230°F), this pump can withstand high wort and water temperatures" on the OBK site. My concern is that it can't actually handle boiling wort (212 f).

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Re: Brewpump update

Post by chalmers » Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:08 pm

That would be frustrating! I have used it a couple of times for cooling through a counter-flow chiller as you described, but did not run into any shut-off issues. My frustration was only from getting it primed, but after that, all went smoothly.

Did the pump feel hot during or immediately prior to the shutoff? Because the pump is mounted directly to the pot, you'll have a massive heat source a couple of inches from the pump. What if you used a short run of tubing to get it away from the pot (this is my setup), do the problems go away?

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Re: Brewpump update

Post by jason.loxton » Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:15 pm

I haven't tried that yet, Chalmers (and to be honest am really reluctant to get stuck half way through a batch to discover it doesn't help--maybe I'll do a fake just water batch). It might indeed be heat conducted through the metal that is making it angry, but the ass end of the pump is at least 6" away from the pot (OBK welded female 1/2" couple + ball valve + female cam lock + male camlock + another 1/2" coupler... and then the pump), and the problems continued even after the burner had long been shut off (which means that there should be no heat source hotter than the near boiling wort).

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Re: Brewpump update

Post by GAM » Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:27 pm

I have a small piece of grain husk stall it once, but that was with no bazooka.

I now have a switch on mine.

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Re: Brewpump update

Post by mr x » Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:28 pm

Could be a flaky temp switch, basically tripping too low.
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Re: Brewpump update

Post by jason.loxton » Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:32 pm

Well, I emailed OBK. Maybe I just got a bum unit like Mr. X suggests. (Or maybe I am missing something else that I am doing wrong.) Seems like other people aren't having this issue, so that's good.

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Re: Brewpump update

Post by jason.loxton » Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:05 pm

This is the reply I got from OBK: "It is the counterflow chiller causing too much restriction and making the pump shut off Jason. Too much work for the little guy. Every chugger is hit and miss if can run a CFC. I can have it replaced or refunded. Sounds like you need a March pump."

I don't think this is correct though. When the pump was shutting down during recirculation it was producing a very strong flow through the end of the chiller. At the same time, it ran without issue (except after unplugging and plugging in) when the flow was severely restricted by a ball valve during chilling.

Anyway, I will run some trials using only cold water but the same set up and using boiling water but with the pump at distance from the kettle this weekend and report back.

As an aside though, if Patrick is right, then this pump is no good for anything other than transfers and RIMS systems (the tubing length and diameter in my counter flow is the same as most HERMS systems).

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Re: Brewpump update

Post by RubberToe » Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:40 pm

Every chugger is hit and miss if can run a CFC.
I be that's the old chugger overheating on boiling recirc problem and seriously doubt they have problems with restriction. Those magnetic drive pumps (March too) are meant to be restricted on the output.

Maybe the brewpump IS overheating because of the bit of extra work but I doubt that's the case with chugger.
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Re: Brewpump update

Post by mr x » Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:43 pm

That sounds like a common misconception with many pumps. Restrictions actually make the pump work less and draw lower amps, as they aren't moving as much liquid (doing work). Many pumps are different, but i'd be very surprised if this pump was drawing more amps at a restricted outlet.
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Re: Brewpump update

Post by jason.loxton » Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:12 pm

Patrick wrote to say that he'd happily send a replacement. I am still going to try a few different scenarios to see if I can figure out what specifically is making it so angry.

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Re: Brewpump update

Post by Jayme » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:07 pm

There are two things that come to mind.

Your burner is propane? If so, even 6" isn't much space unless you have one massive heat shield.... If it's electric, then never mind - should be fine (the exterior of the metal would not be any hotter than 100C).

Second thought is a bit of a long shot, but perhaps your power supply is dropping well below 12V. It says the operating range is 8-24V, but sounds like it's regulating it to 12V. If that regulator is drawing a bunch of current to boost it up to 12V, that could account for an additional heat rise. I think John said he was using a 1.5A supply and you mentioned a 2A supply... So definitely a long shot... but I thought it's worth mentioning.
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Re: Brewpump update

Post by jason.loxton » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:44 pm

Electric, but stove top, so it might still be an issue (not a gas burner issue, but still possibly knocking the heat up a bit). I don't know enough about electricity to know whether the latter option is viable. I am going to try and rule out the obvious ones via experiments next week. :)

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Re: Brewpump update

Post by LeafMan66_67 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:01 pm

HappyHopper wrote:Seems to work nice I have it at my place I used it although not under the best circumstances (spruce beer, screen got clogged) if anyone needs it send me a message.
Is the trial pump still with HappyHopper? Wouldn't mind giving it a shot to see if it's worth changing from my gravity flow setup.
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Re: Brewpump update

Post by LeafMan66_67 » Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:28 pm

LeafMan66_67 wrote:
HappyHopper wrote:Seems to work nice I have it at my place I used it although not under the best circumstances (spruce beer, screen got clogged) if anyone needs it send me a message.
Is the trial pump still with HappyHopper? Wouldn't mind giving it a shot to see if it's worth changing from my gravity flow setup.
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Re: Brewpump update

Post by HappyHopper » Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:33 pm

yes sorry send me an inbox for a pick up... im going through a separation so im not on here much..
In bottle:Up the Kriek without a mash paddle, (insert Witty name)pumpkin lambic

On Tap:

Fermenting/Conditioning:

Future Projects:Chimney Sweepers Wife dark peated Scottish Heavy, Ginger bread brown, Home for the holidays spiced rum Brown Ale, Black Eye RyePA, Black Ryno Swartzbeir

Beer Laid To Rest (brewed it, drank it, loved it)Malt-n-lava AIPA, Single hop Citra pale ale, Belgian Blond, deforestation Ale Spruce Rye IPA,

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Re: Brewpump update

Post by bluenose » Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:57 pm

so I'm thinking about getting one of these to transfer wort to-and-from my 70qt cooler and keggle... any other things I should be thinking about? Did Jason Loxton get his new pump figured out?
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Re: Brewpump update

Post by bluenose » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:36 pm

So I finally got one of these little fellas:
IMAG1456.jpg
am I ok putting a ball valve on the outlet side of the pump?

does anyone have any thoughts on the best way to secure this thing in one place?
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Re: Brewpump update

Post by LeafMan66_67 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:14 pm

Ball valve on the outlet. You want to restrict the outlet.
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Re: Brewpump update

Post by RubberToe » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:10 am

Regarding securing it, I'd tie or strap down the ball valve to whatever you're mounting it to so that when you move the valve you aren't putting any stress on the fittings or pump housing. I've read stories on how people have cracked their housing on march pumps even.
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Re: Brewpump update

Post by dexter » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:15 am

since its gravity primed you'll want to make sure its angled down to get things moving.

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Re: Brewpump update

Post by GAM » Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:14 am

Looks like my setup. I have a short silicone hose from the kettle to the pump on the ground and a longer one to pump back to the kettle.

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