Change Reccomendations For BOTY Please

[GuingesRock]

...Actually this probably merits it's own thread.

I posted a link to my Brewnoser thread about my brewing burnout (http://www.brewnosers.org/forums/viewto ... f=3&t=8952" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) on Twitter.

The first response was a PM enquiring if I though brewing burnout was a result of the volume needed to compete nationally, and my response was a resounding YESS!!!

Now I have been asked to review and help with a document to presented to BOTY with recommendations for change.

My thought was to have an entry cap per brewer of 10 entries for every competition. Someone else suggested 8. There are also thoughts that the number of competitions on the circuit is now getting out of hand.

Please help with your thoughts. As soon as I have posted this I will send the organizer of this a link to this thread.

[GuingesRock]

I wonder if beers should be of the brewers own design and not copied recipes. There could be also BCS (Brewing Classic Styles) competitions, (as per Jimmy's suggestion) where everyone sticks strictly to BCS recipes. That would then be a test purely of a brewing skill.

[Jimmy]

I wonder if beers should be of the brewers own design and not copied recipes. There could be also BCS (Brewing Classic Styles) competitions, (as per Jimmy's suggestion) where everyone sticks strictly to BCS recipes. That would then be a test purely of a brewing skill.

I was only making fun with that comment, but I do think it could bring some non-competition folks out of the wood-work.

[GuingesRock]

I wonder if beers should be of the brewers own design and not copied recipes. There could be also BCS (Brewing Classic Styles) competitions, (as per Jimmy's suggestion) where everyone sticks strictly to BCS recipes. That would then be a test purely of a brewing skill.

I was only making fun with that comment, but I do think it could bring some non-competition folks out of the wood-work.

I thought about it and I think it would have merit. That's why I mentioned it.

[mumblecrunch]

The first response was a PM enquiring if I though brewing burnout was a result of the volume needed to compete nationally, and my response was a resounding YESS!!!

Now I have been asked to review and help with a document to presented to BOTY with recommendations for change.

My thought was to have an entry cap per brewer of 10 entries for every competition. Someone else suggested 8. There are also thoughts that the number of competitions on the circuit is now getting out of hand.

Totally agree with the idea of reducing the number of entries if you're trying to encourage participation, although I think 6 might be a more reasonable number (I can see sending a 12-pack of beer to a competition, but not more than that).

BOTY is technically not associated with the competitions though, right? So it would be odd at best (and meddlesome at worst) for them to be able to influence the actual competition rules. I think the best you could do would be to say that while a competition may or may not have an entry limit, a maximum of X beers will qualify for BOTY results. You could leave it as "your best X results" or, if you really want to limit the utility of carpet bombing the competition, you could force the brewer to declare openly which beers should be considered for BOTY results. I believe the competition software in use by most competitions would allow such an indication in the notes field.

[Jimmy]

BOTY is technically not associated with the competitions though, right? So it would be odd at best (and meddlesome at worst) for them to be able to influence the actual competition rules. I think the best you could do would be to say that while a competition may or may not have an entry limit, a maximum of X beers will qualify for BOTY results. You could leave it as "your best X results" or, if you really want to limit the utility of carpet bombing the competition, you could force the brewer to declare openly which beers should be considered for BOTY results. I believe the competition software in use by most competitions would allow such an indication in the notes field.

I don't think they are technically associated with the competitions, but I don't see why they couldn't set criteria that the competitions need to meet in order for them to be eligible for the BOTY circuit?

[mcgster]

BOTY doesn't run the competitions I don't know how they are going to tell clubs they have to change their rules. All they could really do is exclude competitions which doesn't make sense to me. I'm ok with it as is.


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[anewton]

I would prefer see entries count like at the ACBAs. Breweries get to 'nominate' their best beers for consideration for BOTY. If those beers medal the points go towards their BoTY standing. This way smaller breweries can compete with larger ones who produce more styles.

This would level the playing field and reduce how many entries you need to compete.

It is also more practical than asking a competition to limit how many entries they allow. Our comp is the only one of its kind on the east coast, and for many local entrants (including some brewnosers) it is the only one they enter. That is why we allowed fifteen entries last year. If someone wants feedback on fifteen or more beers then I will make sure he gets it.

The other option is to have different rounds like NHC. Qualifiers, etc.

[jason.loxton]

I don't think limiting things to original recipes makes sense. First, I don't think it is enforceable: There is going to be a huge amount of convergence on certain styles, and considerable overlap by coincidence; also tiny modifications would technically make anything an original recipe anyway. Both are likely to result in a lot of anger and hair splitting if you try to enforce originality. Second, I don't think there's such thing as brewing the same recipe, since the contribution of water, extraction and isomerization efficiency, yeast strain, pitching rate, and health, O2, etc., all mean that even if one attempts to perfectly duplicate one of Jamil's recipes, you're really brewing something different (given the different conditions).

[GuingesRock]

I don't think limiting things to original recipes makes sense. First, I don't think it is enforceable (there is going to be a huge amount of convergence on certain styles, and considerable overlap by coincidence; also tiny modifications would technically make anything an original recipe anyway. Both are likely to result in a lot of anger and hair splitting if you try to enforce originality). Second, I don't think there's such thing as brewing the same recipe, since the contribution of water, extraction and isomerization efficiency, yeast strain, pitching rate, and health, O2, etc., all mean that even if one attempts to perfectly duplicate one of Jamil's recipes, you're really brewing something different.

True, but BCS recipes are supposed to be among the most reproducible. They call them "recipes of integrity" on that Australian BIAB site. You could conceivably lump management of your own water into brewing skills. But basically you are right.

[mcgster]

Several of Jamil's recipes still win Gold at the NHC in the US out of 7,000+ entries, so the variance in brewing technique and skill within one recipe is huge.

[GuingesRock]

Several of Jamil's recipes still win Gold at the NHC in the US out of 7,000+ entries, so the variance in brewing technique and skill within one recipe is huge.

Good recipes are a dime a dozen. Actually there are millions out there for free. It is the skill of the brewer that is the main thing IMHO.

[mcgster]

Completely agree - recipes are meaningless without technique and skill. I think that is what many of us on here have been saying.

[GuingesRock]

Completely agree - recipes are meaningless without technique and skill. I think that is what many of us on here have been saying.

I don't think I was pushing designing your own beers because I thought it would win you more medals in the BOTY. I was suggesting it for other reasons. But I'm pleased I can agree with the majority on something.

[chalmers]

I believe the BOTY could be changed without altering how the competitions wish to run (limiting entries or not). I like Andrew's suggestion of pre-nominating a set number of brews for points in the BOTY. It would require entrants submitting their list in advance of each comp to the BOTY folks, but would not preclude them from sending more to a comp for feedback (and may influence the beers they nominate for subsequent comps). Reading GRock's honest breakdown of costs of making a run for BOTY in another thread highlights why it precludes most homebrewers from making a run at it. I feel like strictly financial reasons shouldn't be the main reason for limiting the number of folks in the running.