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Blichmann, Chugger and CSA certification
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:50 pm
by mumblecrunch
So Toronto Brewing Co. posted a story to Facebook today referencing
this article about the Electrical Safety Authority of Ontario shutting down breweries until they rework their electrical panels.
No big deal, right? Most of us aren't microbreweries so it doesn't affect us.
But that
Facebook post says that in relation to that story they're immediately discontinuing the Blichmann Tower of Power electrical control unit because they don't meet Canadian standards. They further say that Chugger pumps are next on the list and they will be offering refunds as a result.
Do folks think this is really anything to worry about or is this Toronto Brewing playing games? I note that Toronto Brewing also sells the much more expensive March pumps (and I can't think of anyone else who does, at least not that I've dealt with). And I seem to recall hearing last year that one vendor was casting aspersions at other vendors for carrying something or other that didn't meet CSA guidelines.
Re: Blichmann, Chugger and CSA certification
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:03 pm
by chalmers
I don't know if it's illegal to sell non-CSA approved electrical equipment in Canada (probably?), but I understand why Toronto Brewing wouldn't want to sell it. Covering Their Ass.
Whether the product becomes unsafe as soon as it hits the border is something different entirely, of course!
Re: Blichmann, Chugger and CSA certification
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:28 pm
by jeffsmith
I don't believe that the Tower of Power units were ever CSA certified. I recall at least one other vendor saying they wouldn't carry them for that very reason. Perhaps OBK?
I'd be curious as to the differences between a March and a Chugger.
Re: Blichmann, Chugger and CSA certification
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:49 pm
by mr x
I wonder if it is Kal's panel design?
Re: Blichmann, Chugger and CSA certification
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:34 pm
by Jayme
I just did a CSA audit at work recently, and I know I asked if it was self-certified or an actual inspection was necessary. I seem to recall that it's self-certified but sometimes audits are done - though I could be recalling that entirely wrong. Regardless, what I did take away is that it's more or less a bullshit process (lot of pointless stipulations)/cash grab. It can be a serious pain in the ass and would really only be worth while for the manufacturer if they thought they would sell a fair amount. It's certainly something I would be fairly concerned with if I owned a brewery and made my own panel - though from that article, I'm not certain that it's quite true that all components must be CSA certified, however it's possible that then the completed assembly has to go through a more complicated (expensive) process to certify the whole assembly, like we do at my work.
Re: Blichmann, Chugger and CSA certification
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:57 pm
by LeafMan66_67
The assemblies must be certified by a recognized agency, whether it's CSA, ULc or other recognized agency. I do know that the chief electrical inspector for the province will regularly visit the dollar store, looking not only for certification, but also counterfeit certifications.
Re: Blichmann, Chugger and CSA certification
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:02 pm
by Jayme
Re: Blichmann, Chugger and CSA certification
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:06 pm
by AllanMar
From the Nova Scotia/Canada code (and seems pretty consistent across provinces)
https://www.novascotia.ca/just/regulati ... iicode.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Approved equipment
15 (1) No corporation, company, or person shall sell, have for sale, display, rent, lease, advertise, install or use any electrical device, appliance or equipment unless it is certified as approved equipment, as defined in the Code, by a certification organization acceptable to the Chief Inspector.
(2) The Chief Inspector may approve the installation and use of electrical equipment in accordance with the Code.
(3) If, in the opinion of the Chief Inspector, electrical equipment poses a fire or shock hazard, the Chief Inspector may order the disconnection of the equipment.
(4) Where the Chief Inspector finds uncertified electrical equipment stocked by a retailer, wholesale supplier, distributor, manufacturer or contractor, the Chief Inspector may order the retailer, wholesale supplier, distributor, manufacturer or contractor, within a reasonable period of time, to
(a) provide the Chief Inspector with a list of persons to whom the equipment has been supplied;
(b) remove from shelves and discontinue selling, renting or leasing the equipment; and
(c) recall the uncertified electrical equipment from the persons to whom it was supplied.
I imagine that's why Toronto Brewing is getting concerned.
Re: Blichmann, Chugger and CSA certification
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:08 pm
by Jayme
LeafMan66_67 wrote:The assemblies must be certified by a recognized agency, whether it's CSA, ULc or other recognized agency. I do know that the chief electrical inspector for the province will regularly visit the dollar store, looking not only for certification, but also counterfeit certifications.
I imagine some of the cheap shit on ebay comes with counterfeit certifications as well...
Re: Blichmann, Chugger and CSA certification
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:11 pm
by LeafMan66_67
Jayme wrote:LeafMan66_67 wrote:The assemblies must be certified by a recognized agency, whether it's CSA, ULc or other recognized agency. I do know that the chief electrical inspector for the province will regularly visit the dollar store, looking not only for certification, but also counterfeit certifications.
I imagine some of the cheap shit on ebay comes with counterfeit certifications as well...
Yep - I don't trust anything cheap on eBay safety related (GFI) or higher current rated unless I'm really sure of the source.
Re: Blichmann, Chugger and CSA certification
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:16 pm
by AllanMar
In case someone doesn't already know, you can check/confirm UL/CSA listings. It can sometimes be difficult to determine exactly what they're listed under though.
http://www.csagroup.org/ca/en/services/ ... ct-listing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/temp ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Blichmann, Chugger and CSA certification
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:26 pm
by Jayme
Interesting... none of our (company I work for) products show up in that search... unless I'm doing it wrong. But I do know we have CSA certification.
Re: Blichmann, Chugger and CSA certification
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:29 pm
by AllanMar
Are they field certified? I don't think those get listed.
Re: Blichmann, Chugger and CSA certification
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:34 pm
by Jayme
Nope!
Re: Blichmann, Chugger and CSA certification
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:28 am
by Comforteagle
I was emailing with Blichman just last week regarding their new all electric BrewEasy. The said they won't be selling it to Canada because of certification & don't know when/if they'll get it.
Re: Blichmann, Chugger and CSA certification
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:07 am
by GillettBreweryCnslt
Ok, some clarification.
Blichmann will no longer be selling the Tower of Power or any product that includes that power controller (Like the BrewEasy) into Canada. I've spoken to John Blichmann several times regarding this and they are not going to pursue certification for that product Although they understand that they can sell it into Canada without CSA certs, they also understand that professional breweries use it and at that level the CFIA and the other inspection agencies look for it. They are however getting the BoilCoil Certified and when that passes, that will be certified with full CSA Approval and released for sale into Canada.
Re: Blichmann, Chugger and CSA certification
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:30 am
by Jayme
Quite certain CFIA is not the inspection agency concerned with control panels (at least not from a CSA/UL certification standpoint)... Otherwise, yes that make sense. Quite unlikely the electrical inspector will be checking out your homebrew setup, but they will be poking around a commercial operation.
Re: Blichmann, Chugger and CSA certification
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:43 am
by LeafMan66_67
This is one of the NS Department of Labour bulletins that applies to assemblies / assembled panels. It is one that we have always taken issue with at our office, but have to abide by and enforce it regardless. This may vary from province to province and IMHO would apply to brewery control panels as well. The bulletin is enforceable in NS by NSPI and Dept. of Labour.
Re: Blichmann, Chugger and CSA certification
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:00 am
by canuck
When I opened my brewery, I had no electrical inspection done on my control panel (and still haven't). Pete Cole from Big Axe however did have to get his panel inspected. I received my panel already assembled where as Pete had his assembled by a local electrician........not sure if that had anything to do with it or not.