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Right now i'm using the shake the shit out of the bucket method, how about you?

I use a similar "technique." I also expect a bit of oxygenation in transfer as I fill my fermenters from a ball valve in my boil kettle. The ol' spalshy fill method!

I have been doing some reading on this... Does using a large starter make this step all but redundant? Do any of you guys inject 02 with pumps/etc?

I shake my carboys. I do have a scintered SS O2 stone that I used to use, and I really should be using again for beers over 1.070. Gotta grab another O2 bottle soon.

Interesting, where do you get O2 from?

I had been buying the little red bottles at HH/CT/PA, but they are such a rip off. I have been trying to justify buying a larger bottle from one of the gas suppliers...

mr x wrote:I had been buying the little red bottles at HH/CT/PA, but they are such a rip off. I have been trying to justify buying a larger bottle from one of the gas suppliers...

You mean the little disposable O2 tanks?

As I understand it, yeast use the O2 when synthesizing membrane components required for cell division/budding (i.e., during the growth stage of fermentation only). A larger starter would reduce the amount of O2 needed, but not eliminate it (cell counts still need to increase substantially in the wort to reach proper levels, unless one were to use an insanely large starter, which would interfere with the production of esters and other desirable compounds that are produced during growth). Supposedly, dry yeast are grown aeorbically and have a sufficient buffer of lipids built in during production to grow properly if pitched at correct rates, and in a moderate gravity beer, without additional O2. I would think then that if one was using dry yeast and aerating (especially with pure O2) they could run into oxidation issues with unused residual O2 post-fermentation. (I bought Jamil's yeast book, and I am sure it will answer all of these questions, but I have barely cracked it. If anyone wants to borrow it, I probably won't get around to reading it for a bit.)

But I may not know what I am talking about...

Brewstrong had a good episode on aeration (the memory of which I am basing most of the above on): http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/589" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oh, and to answer the main question for this thread: When using liquid yeast I grow an appropriate starter, keep the siphon hose at the top of the carboy when transferring (so that it sprays the worts in and foams), and then shake the crap out of things. My attenuation is normally pretty good, but I have been thinking of looking at a filtered aquarium pump as I slowly try to make my process more refined and replicable.

moxie wrote:

mr x wrote:I had been buying the little red bottles at HH/CT/PA, but they are such a rip off. I have been trying to justify buying a larger bottle from one of the gas suppliers...

You mean the little disposable O2 tanks?

Yup.

jason.loxton wrote:As I understand it, yeast use the O2 when synthesizing membrane components required for cell division/budding (i.e., during the growth stage of fermentation only). A larger starter would reduce the amount of O2 needed, but not eliminate it (cell counts still need to increase substantially in the wort to reach proper levels, unless one were to use an insanely large starter, which would interfere with the production of esters and other desirable compounds that are produced during growth). Supposedly, dry yeast are grown aeorbically and have a sufficient buffer of lipids built in during production to grow properly if pitched at correct rates, and in a moderate gravity beer, without additional O2. I would think then that if one was using dry yeast and aerating (especially with pure O2) they could run into oxidation issues with unused residual O2 post-fermentation. (I bought Jamil's yeast book, and I am sure it will answer all of these questions, but I have barely cracked it. If anyone wants to borrow it, I probably won't get around to reading it for a bit.)

But I may not know what I am talking about...

Nash is the person with the best experience on this one, but I don't think you'll get oxidation problems with O2 and dry yeast, or any other yeast. I think you'd have to oxygenate at an incredibly insane level to wind up with residual O2. And long before then you'd have other significant issues....

http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_oxygenation.cfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I just listen to the CYBI for Maharaja Imperial IPA and the head brewer from Avery Brewing said he didn't think you could get too much oxygen into a brew for fermenting.

Ask Nash about that one, lol...

jason.loxton wrote:As I understand it, yeast use the O2 when synthesizing membrane components required for cell division/budding (i.e., during the growth stage of fermentation only). A larger starter would reduce the amount of O2 needed, but not eliminate it (cell counts still need to increase substantially in the wort to reach proper levels, unless one were to use an insanely large starter, which would interfere with the production of esters and other desirable compounds that are produced during growth). Supposedly, dry yeast are grown aeorbically and have a sufficient buffer of lipids built in during production to grow properly if pitched at correct rates, and in a moderate gravity beer, without additional O2. I would think then that if one was using dry yeast and aerating (especially with pure O2) they could run into oxidation issues with unused residual O2 post-fermentation. (I bought Jamil's yeast book, and I am sure it will answer all of these questions, but I have barely cracked it. If anyone wants to borrow it, I probably won't get around to reading it for a bit.)

But I may not know what I am talking about...

Hmm. That is some interesting info. So if I understand you correctly, a large starter or heavy O2 would be ideal conditions if the goal is a super neutral fermentation. Until now I have been aerating wort the same way for every style I brew.

jason.loxton wrote: bought Jamil's yeast book, and I am sure it will answer all of these questions, but I have barely cracked it. If anyone wants to borrow it, I probably won't get around to reading it for a bit.

I would love to borrow it for a day or two.