Lagering Newb...

[TinyRivers]

Hi folks, I made a batch of Brewhouse Pilsner pitching a lager yeast at 16 celsius in the primary stage. At secondary fermentation, I refridgerated at 5 celsius (as per a suggestion I found on line).

I've read elsewhere that at the completion of the secondary fermentation the beer should be warmed up for 3 or so days (can't remember where I read this or if it is even correct) before kegging it.

Does this make sense, or did I even do it right?

I'm basically done the secondary now...ready to move on...

Thanks for any help...

Doug.

[CartoonCod]

I think you got the basic concept down. In your next batch I'd try to ferment it a bit cooler than 16 degC.

Here is the quick schedule that I try to follow
- I grow up alot of yeast by using starters, or use 4 rehydrated dry yeast packets for a 5 gallon batch
- Pitch below 10 degC then let it warm up to 10 degC, leave it there for 3 weeks. Some people pitch warmer and then towards the end of fermentation warm it up a few degrees for a diacetyl rest.
- Once the fermentation is done (ie: the specific gravity doesn't change) I crash cool it to 2-3 degC for 3 weeks, but some people suggest cooling it down to 4 or 5 degC at a rate of 2 degC per day and leaving it there for a few weeks up to a few months.

[TinyRivers]

Yeah, since following this route, I've read part of Brewing Classic Styles that suggested something similar to your above schedule.

I'll definitely try that with my next lager.

Considering the path I've taken with this pilsner, do you know what temp I should be raising it to, and for how long. before I keg?

[Keggermeister]

You have it correct. The three day or so raise in temp is a Diacetyl rest. The raised temperature helps yeast scrub the Diacetyl from the beer. Without raising the temp you risk excess Diacetyl.
Greg Noonan's New Brewing Lager beer is a good read. It is pretty technical at times, but as a lot of great info on fermentation techniques.
http://www.amazon.com/New-Brewing-Lager ... Lager+beer

[CartoonCod]

Did you already refrigerate it to 5 degC? If so, I'm not sure the yeast will be active enough after you warm it up for the diacetyl rest. If you want to take full advantage of the diacetyl rest you want to warm up the beer a few degrees higher than the primary fermentation for a few days, so in your case up to 18 degC or so.

You can check for diacetyl by taking a sample and letting it warm up to room temperature. Taste the sample as it warms and take note if it ever smells like butter or movie theater popcorn, if so there is diacetyl in your beer and might need some more conditioning. Warming up the beer to 18 degC or so and pitching some actively fermenting yeast should do the trick. You can also look up online on how to do a forced diacetyl test to determine if your beer will be susceptible to diacetyl as it ages. Diacetyl is a common problem with lagers that had the yeast pitched at too high a temperature.

What I recommend is actually tasting the beer. If it tastes good to you then bottle/keg it and drink it.

[TinyRivers]

Hi CC, I wound up kegging it before reading your last post.

I found that the whole kit had a kind of banana smell to it as it lagered, and it's not necessarily the tastiest beer I've made.

Still drinkable, but I wonder if that means the diacetyl rest didn't work.

As temps go I had no way of pitching it colder than 16 at the time, and I read somewhere that as long as the lagering temp was at least 10 lower, it would be alright.

I've also read that generally if the beer isn't tasting so good, letting it age could help that as the yeast can still kill the issue (???) that cause the problem in the first place.

If it is due to diacetyl rest, is it likely only going to get worse with time?

Thanks for you help, and thanks Kehmeister for the link. I'll check out the book...

Doug.

[mr x]

My first festabrew lager fermented too high and had significant banana.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4

[Tony L]

If you use true lager yeast and pitch it at temperatures higher than those recommended for the particular yeast, then you will get esters in addition to diacetyl. The esters are there to stay, although time has a way of diminishing most mistakes. Hang in there and mark it up a a lesson in making lagers.

Good luck on your next one and learn from your mistakes as we all did. You'll get better the more you brew and learn lagers. I'm still learning and relearning the things I should know and retain about making good lager beer.

[TinyRivers]

Yeah, I jumped in with 2 feet and then started reading up only to find I should have done things differently.

Live and learn, no biggie.

Thanks for the info folks...D.

[Two Wheeler]

My first festabrew lager fermented too high and had significant banana.

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Same story here... After 6 weeks it mellowed a bit but still never fully went away

[TinyRivers]

Hmmm, that's unfortunate.

Besides the brewhouse pilsner, I tried a Heineken clone using the same yeast (saflager s-23) and basically pitched it around the same temp. Hopefully I haven't screwed 2 batches.

Sure, I'll still drink both, but it seems the more I alter, the worse I make it.

I'll get it right next time though...

Thanks, Doug.

[LeafMan66_67]

Hmmm, that's unfortunate.

Besides the brewhouse pilsner, I tried a Heineken clone using the same yeast (saflager s-23) and basically pitched it around the same temp. Hopefully I haven't screwed 2 batches.

Sure, I'll still drink both, but it seems the more I alter, the worse I make it.

I'll get it right next time though...

Thanks, Doug.

That's the best part of this hobby - even when you make a mistake, you still end up with beer!