Beer Design

[GuingesRock]

Are there any "don'ts" with mixing hops, any combinations that really don't work?

Any pointers/guidelines for combinations that work well, or is it like making a fruit salad (you can throw any fruit you like in, and it will taste good)?

Any combinations that work really well? (like rhubarb and strawberry works in a pie).

[jtmwhyte]

I don't know about the not working at all part, but "C-Hops" generally play well together (Chinook, Cascade, Centennial, Citra, Columbus, etc...) and they work well with anything with intense citrus/pine (Simcoe and several others). I think the biggest concern is drowning out something "lighter" with something heavy oil content. For example I wouldn't late hop/dry hop an IIPA with Saaz or other noble hops as the flavours would likely be lost to the intensity of the "bigger hops".

[sleepyjamie]

Hop substitution charts are a good start, as they can show you similar hop profiles.

I recently made an apa with warrior chinook and cascade and used willamette for dry hoping and it came out nice

[Jayme]

I agree with the idea of American hops usually play well with other American, noble with other noble, English with other English, etc. Also wouldn't try English hops in an American ipa kind of thing. Some of the NZ varieties I imagine might make a nice blend with some American hops.


Sent from a rotary telephone using taps talk

[gm-]

I agree with Jayme noble with noble, british with british, american with american. That being said, I find that willamette works very well with british hops (it is derived from fuggles after all), and I've used Northern brewer in american ipas with good results.

[GuingesRock]

Very useful comments...thanks! I thought that hop choice might be a style thing, but it's interesting that you suggest mostly using a countries hops for that countries beer.The overpowering thing also, I will take note of.

Jason.Loxton's thread "Williamette and?" got me going on this. I've used Williamette before in a Tribute clone, but I don't think I got the best out of them that time, and I want to give them another go. I'd mix them with Cascade or Styrian Goldings.

I read that Amarillo tastes like biting into a tangerine, and that stuck into my head for some reason. I also had an Amarillo beer once that I really liked.

Reading about hops, I've become quite interested in Williamette and Amarillo for my next IPA adventure. I would start combining them with my current limited repertoire, which is mostly Styrians and Cascade.

For Blondes, I haven't got a clue what to add in. I've been using Cascade or Styrian Goldings. Blondes are a kind of a nondescript (hybrid) class as far as I can make out, and they are just supposed to be pale and easy drinking. Maybe Galaxy would be a good one?

I found some good links on hops: http://www.hopunion.com/aroma-wheel/?aroma=Fruity and http://www.hopunion.com/hop-varieties/

[Jayme]

Goldings and Cascade are quite different, and Cascade will mostly overpower the goldings. Galaxy, Cascade and Amarillo would go reasonably well together. Amarillo would over power Williamette (Jon's right - it's more of an English hop).

[GuingesRock]

Thanks for the help Jayme, This is really interesting.

I tried combining Styrian Goldings and Cascade before, I looked it up and read on some forum or other that it worked well, but I wasn't over the moon with it, so I don't do that any more. It's either one or the other now for me. Styrian Goldings are actually a Fuggle variety (not Goldings at all), but they are used in American IPAs sometimes.

I’m thinking for the Blonde (10 gal): Cascade 8oz 10 minute addition and Galaxy 8oz at flameout with 100% German Pilsner (5% ABV), US-05. And for an alternative version: same but Styrian Goldings instead of Cascade.

For the IPA (10 gal) 80% MO, 2% Crystal 80, 18% Munich (ABV 6.2%) US-05. Styrian Goldings (alternatively Cascade) 6oz FWH, 5oz 10 mins, 5oz flameout. And something new to try at flameout ? Maybe 4oz Williamette? Or maybe 4oz Galaxy?

Another IPA I might want to try: (10 gal) 80% MO, 2% Crystal 80, 18% Munich (ABV 6.2%). Amarillo 6oz FWH, 5oz 10 mins, 5oz flameout. Plus 4oz Galaxy at flameout.

[sleepyjamie]

Seems like a lot of Munich for an IPA.

[GuingesRock]

Another IPA I might want to try: (10 gal) 80% MO, 2% Crystal 80, 18% Munich (ABV 6.2%). Amarillo 6oz FWH, 5oz 10 mins, 5oz flameout. Plus 4oz Galaxy at flameout.

Seems like a lot of Munich for an IPA.

Are you sure Jamie? I have little experience with Munich. In England, I really liked the malt bill of Proper Job, and I wanted to emulate that for my malt base, but with more heavy handed hopping. I searched around for what I thought looked like the most serious attempt at a proper job clone and found it on a Scandanavian site (I think, or some unusual place to find a Proper Job clone) http://www.haandbryg.dk/cgi-bin/beercal ... wersearch=

The beer has quite an orange colour which I thought that much Munich might give. I took a picture of my pint in England (below). It was painful taking the picture as I had to wait before having my first swig. I thought the orange colour might match the Amarillo orange/tangerine flavours also.

Let me know if you think I might be way off the mark, as I want this to be good first time around if possible.

[Jayme]

What's the calculated srm? I like using Munich to add colour to a beer and still keep it dry. I think it's fine to try! It almost certainly will be quite drinkable.


Sent from a rotary telephone using taps talk

[GuingesRock]

What's the calculated srm? I like using Munich to add colour to a beer and still keep it dry. I think it's fine to try! It almost certainly will be quite drinkable.


Sent from a rotary telephone using taps talk

Thanks for the help, really appreciate it. SRM 7.7

[Jayme]

That's on the low end for the style if anything. I say go with it. I heard an interview with a well respected American brewer who uses Munich to colour his ipas and a absolutely no caramel malts. It escapes me what the name was but I heard it on the brewing network. I've tried that sort of a malt bill before and was happy with the results!


Sent from a rotary telephone using taps talk

[GuingesRock]

Interesting! I think I might ditch the Crystal. I'm really interested in that orange colour.

[sleepyjamie]

From my experience with making apa and IPAs I always start out with less specialty malts as sometimes they can be over done and u don't end up with the beer you want. I've had IPAs that had too much caramel and ended up not as quaffable. Same goes for Munich.

Making recipes with less with give u a better gauge on how much more to add next time around.

Needless to say its all about experimentation.

[amartin]

I like a good chunk of Munich malt in my IPA, but I usually use domestic malt. With Maris Otter it may not be needed.

[Jayme]

Munich is technically considered a base malt I believe, just kilned slightly higher. Some of the darker German lager use almost all Munich or Vienna malt. While it may not be everyone's favourite grain by the sounds of it, it's certainly not unorthodox or unheard of. Try it and see what you think!


Sent from a rotary telephone using taps talk

[jeffsmith]

I agree with Jayme. Give it a shot and see what you think of it. I brewed a pumpkin ale a few weeks ago that had 30% Munich. It's still in the fermenter, but I'm pretty happy with the few small tastes I've has of it so far.

[jtmwhyte]

Another IPA I might want to try: (10 gal) 80% MO, 2% Crystal 80, 18% Munich (ABV 6.2%). Amarillo 6oz FWH, 5oz 10 mins, 5oz flameout. Plus 4oz Galaxy at flameout.

Seems like a lot of Munich for an IPA.

Are you sure Jamie? I have little experience with Munich. In England, I really liked the malt bill of Proper Job, and I wanted to emulate that for my malt base, but with more heavy handed hopping. I searched around for what I thought looked like the most serious attempt at a proper job clone and found it on a Scandanavian site (I think, or some unusual place to find a Proper Job clone) http://www.haandbryg.dk/cgi-bin/beercal ... wersearch=

The beer has quite an orange colour which I thought that much Munich might give. I took a picture of my pint in England (below). It was painful taking the picture as I had to wait before having my first swig. I thought the orange colour might match the Amarillo orange/tangerine flavours also.

Let me know if you think I might be way off the mark, as I want this to be good first time around if possible.

http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/ ... -job-clone" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[GuingesRock]

Thanks for the help! Makes a lot of difference having comments from people with experience like that.

I saw that one Trevor. And I see it did well at a proper job comp.

I think I had a bad experience with caramel/crystal malts and brewed a batch that I didn’t much like. I probably overdid them like Jamie mentioned above, and since then I’ve been sticking to base malts with character like MO and Pilsner. I think Munich might be a nice middle ground for me, but I don’t know that until I try it. I’m leaving out the crystal, and I think, but again don’t know until I try it, that I will get closer to the orange colour by doing that. Thanks Jayme for the information on Munich with no caramel.

Based on what you all said, mixed with my own notions that are derived from inexperience and enthusiasm This is where I am so far:

“Amarillo Galaxy” American IPA, ABV 6.2, SRM 6.1, OG 1.056
Malt: 80% MO, 2% Cara-Pils, 18% Munich
Hops (10 Gal batch): Amarillo 6oz FWH, 5oz 10 mins, 5oz flameout. Plus 4oz Galaxy at flameout.
Yeast: US-05

[gm-]

That IPA sounds good to me, I would use some light crystal malt (20 or 40L), but if you don't like them, then there is no reason to use them.

Honey malt is also nice alternative to crystals, I find it gives a nice flavour to IPAs

[GuingesRock]

Yep! the Amarillo Galaxy is the best beer I've made! I'm over the moon

Thanks for the help with that guys!

ps. I want to make this again and again, but Amarillo is a bit hard to find ATM. Does anyone know a good source?

[GuingesRock]

I have a pound of Willamette in the freezer. I want to get to know the hop so was going to make a pilsner/Willamette smash with late hopping and hop stand only so I can get an idea of the flavours. Would it be horrible or nice? I was googling and someone said here Willamette only IPAs don't taste good ...true or false?

from the link:
It's relatively difficult to find a single-hop beer that features only Willamette hops. I'm going to say, right up-front, that this is the absolute worst flavor that I have ever encountered in an IPA.

[Woody]

Our job as home brewers is to push the envelope and do things differently. Just because others say that they cant be done doesn't mean that the ceiling is there. It all comes down to taste. If it's their and you enjoy it, your laughing.

[NASH]

Our job as home brewers is to push the envelope and do things differently. Just because others say that they cant be done doesn't mean that the ceiling is there. It all comes down to taste. If it's their and you enjoy it, your laughing.

Your 'job' as a homebrewer is to do whateverthefuckyouwant.

As for your lb of Willamette, I say burn it in a pipe. It'll be tasty and won't ruin your beer