No-Chill

[GuingesRock]

http://ec.libsyn.com/p/3/6/0/3603cb730d ... id=5877080
(First 3-4 minutes are ads.)

The Australians do a lot of no-chilling. It seems to go hand-in-hand with BIAB down there. I tried it a few times, just in the BIAB pot, with the lid on, didn’t notice any difference but a 10 gal batch took about 36 hours to cool to pitching temperature.

One advantage is you can let it cool in a sealed plastic container and then can ferment when you feel like it (up to a year or more later maybe)…bit like the FestaBrew kits.

[GuingesRock]

Video by the same comedian (Bob Stempski)...if anyone is interested in "no chill" (or BIAB)

[Jimmy]

Is anyone on this forum using the no-chill method?

I picked up some water containers from Canadian Tire a while back, but they reeked of plastic...smelled like oil or something, so I took them back.

I'm still interested in giving this a go. One less thing to do sounds great to me.

[GAM]

I have using stainless 40l keg. Clarity suffers (I don't care) and once you pitch it is mostly ready to drink in 5 days. I secondaried it for 2 weeks and it would not clear (no finnings)

Sandy

[CorneliusAlphonse]

Yeah stainless instead of plastic and I might be willing to give it a try.

[GuingesRock]

Scroll down here for fancy 5 gal Stainless Steel Jerry Cans in Canada...$70

I don't know if it is important to be able to squeeze the air out though, like in the video above. I'll email an Australian expert.

You can leave it in the boil pot to cool with the lid on, if you are going to ferment right away and don't want to store it before fermenting.

[mr x]

Probably suck the sides in, but may flex back if it's just the side panels that move.

Sent from Tapatalk 2, a prick of a company.

[GuingesRock]

Probably suck the sides in, but may flex back if it's just the side panels that move.

Sent from Tapatalk 2, a prick of a company.

Yes, you're right. I forgot about the sides sucking in as the wort cooled. I emailed and if I get a response, that may be one of the problems. A corny would just suck in air too past the lid seal, or through the poppet valves. The negative pressure would be huge.

In the mean time this Australian run international site page would be the best place to research. It's the chill and no chill threads. I invented a chiller on there (thread on that page, kind of a larking around thread though, and you can't see the picture unless you log in). Look out for posts by "PistolPatch" and "BobBrews" as being reliable information on that site. They are two masters of BIAB and no chill.

[GuingesRock]

…Just had a thought…you probably could no chill in a Corny, if it was hooked up to a CO2 line as it cooled, and could also purge out the air with C02, before the wort started cooling. I think it would need to be pressurised when stored to keep the seal, and that might be an issue as CO2 would dissolve in the wort and the keg would lose pressure. I don't know how the wort would respond to being carbonated like that before fermentation either and what the yeast would think of it.

The restaurant below my office throws out about 10 plastic jerry cans every 2 weeks. They look ideal and I have eyed them up from a distance every garbage day. I’ll have a closer look at them and maybe post pictures. They get their cooking oil in them.

[LiverDance]

I have no chilled a 5gal batch in a 10gal corny keg before a couple of times. Results turned out great, I also sealed the keg and pressurized to 30 psi. I didn't see any sign's of negative pressue

[GuingesRock]

I didn't know you could get 10 gallon Corny Kegs, but I see you can! That would be perfect for my 10 gal batches, although would be quite heavy. Do you know where they can be purchased?

I think I only see negative pressure in CO2 charged kegs because I only use about 2 PSI with my "real ale simulation" technique, so at that low PSI I find I need to keep the CO2 hooked up to the keg otherwise negative pressure does develop. From what you say, pressurising the keg to 30PSI works, and the wort/yeast don't mind it. That's interesting.

[LiverDance]

I only sealed the keg and pressurized while cooling the liquid, once it is at pitching temp I depressurize and ferment as normal. However, on another note I have flirted with the idea of a closed system pressized fermentation http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/closed- ... que-44344/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; I may try this through he fall and winter just to see what happens. I don't know where you could purchase these as I got them from a friend, maybe try ebay.

[GuingesRock]

There's a guy on my old site who is crazy about doing that. He did quite a good write up with pics. http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php ... sed+system

[LiverDance]

There's a guy on my old site who is crazy about doing that. He did quite a good write up with pics. http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php ... sed+system

cool, thanks for the link.

[bluenose]

Is there any reason why you can't no-chill in a glass carboy?

[LiverDance]

Is there any reason why you can't no-chill in a glass carboy?

Seems risky, I'm not sure a glass carboy would handle that kind of heat being transferred into it. You could no chill right in your kettle then transfer to the carboy when it's at pitching temp.

[GuingesRock]

I got one of the cooking oil containers from the restaurant to have a look at. It is made of the right plastic HDPE (PP=Polypropylene also good), but the walls are too thin, it only holds 16L and the lid doesn’t have a seal.

The no chill container (N/C) must be thick walled to begin with. Thin walled containers will collapse when boiling wort is put in. HDPE natural high density polyethylene (HDPE) PP (polypropylene)

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.a ... d=redirect

http://www.relianceproducts.com/product ... on/79.html

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.a ... d=redirect


Remember that no manufacturer make's No-Chill containers. We are making do with whatever works. Caution must be taken with the container. It must be safe to store hot wort and not impart any taste or chemical residue. If it's thick walled and is safe to hold water (I) am good with it! Safety is up to you!

The above from: http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php ... dpe#p29946" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[GAM]

Is there any reason why you can't no-chill in a glass carboy?

Better Bottle maybe.

Sandy

[bluenose]

Is there any reason why you can't no-chill in a glass carboy?

Better Bottle maybe.

Sandy

I was thinking of getting once of these anyway

I sent them an email asking them if they can handle boiling wort safely

[Jimmy]

Is there any reason why you can't no-chill in a glass carboy?

Better Bottle maybe.

Sandy

I was thinking of getting once of these anyway

I sent them an email asking them if they can handle boiling wort safely

On their website it looks like 140*F

http://www.better-bottle.com/technical.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[GuingesRock]

I got the email back from Australia's BIAB expert and pioneer. He's using his web alias "PP" ("Pistol Patch"). Thanks very much for your time and trouble PP....................

Mark, I’m not sure if these answers are of much use but feel free to use them if they are.

1. I would shy away from stainless steel containers due to the expense but also because their lack of flexibility would probably put a lot more negative pressure on the seal than if a plastic container were used. The negative pressure is ‘shared’ over the entire vessel if it has the flexibility of a plastic.

2. The HDPE containers that can handle high temps and food-grade material are fine. Some may smell a little plasticy at first. Make sure that before using them, you boil up a gallon or two of water and rinse the container with this. After say three good boiling rinses and airing, if ‘the cube’ still smelt plasticy, I’d be worried.

3. I would not use a cube if I wanted to pitch the next day. I would just leave it to cool in the kettle. Introducing another vessel to hold wort for a day is not good practice in my opinion and it creates more work. Cooling in the kettle is not a practice I would encourage but I have done it several times on robust recipes and haven’t noticed any negatives.

4. My kettles are large enough to allow me to get one batch of 11 gallons into the fermentor for an average gravity brew. What I do is, about twenty minutes after the boil ends, drain half the wort into a no-chill container (plastic cube). I fill the cube right up and cap it as I think this is better than squeezing cubes. I can pitch that wort any time I like. (I still have one cube I brewed on 21st April 2012 that I haven’t pitched yet. It will be fine.) The remaining wort, I immersion chill and pitch immediately. This system is working well. It gives me the best use of my equipment and time.

Anyone who is worried about quality should know that I do enter one competition each year and even when I run out of time and quickly do a brew a few weeks before the comp, I always get something to take home so I probably would recognise if there were any quality issues between the chill and no-chill beers I brew.

There’s a heap we don’t know about no-chill but there’s also a heap we don’t know about chilled beers. Personally I suspect that of all chilling methods, the immersion chiller is the odd man out as it drops the temperature of the main body of wort down faster than any other method. In reality, no-chill isn’t that far off some other chilling methods. Commercial breweries, as far as I have been able to tell, don’t start their chilling until about 10 minutes after the boil and then it might take another 40 minutes for the wort to get drained through the chiller.

There are a lot of questions to be asked on any chilling method that can’t be answered very well by home brewers (or even probably by a lot of pro brewers) unless they can do side by side brews and a lot of them. All I can say though is that there is nothing to fear in no-chill.

PP

[bluenose]

Here's my reply from Walter at Better Bottle:

Mark:


Definitely not! Why would you want to put boiling wort into a carboy– it is not recommended for brewing in general. Furthermore, such hot wort will damage virtually every type of plastic container and likely cause a glass carboy to crack.
Regards,

Walter
Technical Support Department
technical@better-bottle.com
BetterBottle carboys ARE better . . .
BetterBottle Division of High-Q, Inc.
E-Mail: office@better-bottle.com
USPS: P.O. Box 440, Wilmette, IL 60091 USA
Web: http://www.Better-Bottle.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Phone: US/CAN 800-435-4585 / Int'l 847-853-9166
Fax: US/CAN 800-474-2672 / Int'l 847-256-6114

So the bottom line is (1) Better Bottles are a no-go for no-chill, and (2) You're all going to hell for not chilling your boiling wort

[LeafMan66_67]

$12.99 at CT

[Jimmy]

Those are the ones I picked up before at Canadian Tire with hopes of fitting 2 of them in my fermenting fridge. They didn't fit, and they reeked of petroleum . Maybe that would go away after a few rinses with boiling water, as posted above.

[LeafMan66_67]

Those are the ones I picked up before at Canadian Tire with hopes of fitting 2 of them in my fermenting fridge. They didn't fit, and they reeked of petroleum . Maybe that would go away after a few rinses with boiling water, as posted above.

Opened one up and sniffed it while in the store last night - just smelled like plastic, which does go away after a couple of "normal" uses.