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I've been thinking about doing the corked 750 ml bottle thing for beers that can take aging - RIS/Barleywine/etc...

Are corked beer bottles supposed to be stored on their sides...

You'll find some pretty heated debate on this issue if you start digging around. A lot of people arguing for both sides, and no consensus. FWIW, I know most lambic brewers store theirs on the side and they seem to know a thing or two.

I'd really like to store them in a wine rack is why I was asking. Probably one of those things where I get it wrong and find out 3 years into an RIS aging, lol.

If you get synthetic corks, that should solve any potential problems with transfer of corked flavor. The yeast will settle on the side of the bottles, but as long as you leave it in the fridge overnight before drinking I can't see any problems.

Corking and caging/capping, I'm assuming? In that case, I don't think it matters. BBB is right: when I went to Cantillon, they've got thousands of bottles stored on their sides. But doing that for a capped cork seems like overkill to me. Might just have been for more convenient storage.
Right now my 100+ bottle cellar is all upright. So far, so good (well, except for the 6-month old fresh hop beer I cracked last weekend, but that was my fault for letting it sit so long).

Absolutely ALL corked bottles should be stored on their sides. I'm quite surprised to hear that there's argument. Dry corks leak air. QED.

I would think so as well, but I've yet to have a flat Chimay, etc, and that's been sitting on the shelf upright for god knows how long...

I _suspect_ that the standard composite cork used in a saison is fairly impervious (as opposed to completely natural corks) to air penetration, but I still think a wet cork is going to be better. BBB talked about "corked flavor", and that's entirely due to air penetration. otoh, synthetic corks just tend to straight oxidation

I have always done it on their sides, label side up... I've been told conflicting opinions about synthetic corks... To each his own, I guess. I would really like to get some of those Belgian style corks/wires for future brews, I have not really heard much info on those either way. For some reason this is my plan for a black lager!

(Don't intend to hijack the thread) My storage problem is a little different... I am trying to figure out a way to store about 90 bottles of wine! Any of you guys build your own rack? A cheap/practical design is what I need. Hey, if you've got an old one kicking around, I'll be glad to take it off your hands. Please PM me a photo if you do.

derek wrote:Absolutely ALL corked bottles should be stored on their sides. I'm quite surprised to hear that there's argument. Dry corks leak air. QED.

I'm not familiar with any cork-only beers, so I'm going to assume you're talking wine/mead.
I find it hard to believe that a cork&cap bottle would be worse off than a cap-only beer. Cork & cage will help to keep it on tight, and with the extra cork material there to help keep the airtight seal.
I guess our answers depend on what the OP was planning on doing: cork, cork&cap or cork&cage.

moxie wrote:I have always done it on their sides, label side up... I've been told conflicting opinions about synthetic corks... To each his own, I guess. I would really like to get some of those Belgian style corks/wires for future brews, I have not really heard much info on those either way. For some reason this is my plan for a black lager!

(Don't intend to hijack the thread) My storage problem is a little different... I am trying to figure out a way to store about 90 bottles of wine! Any of you guys build your own rack? A cheap/practical design is what I need. Hey, if you've got an old one kicking around, I'll be glad to take it off your hands. Please PM me a photo if you do.

I am also thinking about getting some belgian corks and cages, might have to gauge interest in a group buy. I buy my racks at NG, they are on sale half price at Quinpool for sure. Hard deal to beat.

I'd be interested in a Belgian cork/cage group buy. Some buddies expressed interest in doing big Belgian with me - and if I'm going to do it, I might as well do it right. I've certainly got enough bottles saved up.

Sean and I corked and caged our saison successfully. He located a supplier on-line, but the corks and cages weren't cheap. We're interested in doing more saisons, so maybe we can get a group order together with a big enough quantity for a discount.

If you're looking for corkable bottles, I found that the enviro depots can be quite helpful. Visit them when they're not busy and talk to someone whose first language is English. They guys who work there may not be well educated, but they certainly know their bottles.

Where did Sean get the corks?

http://morebeer.com/search//belgian/2

Let me check with someone who has a C&B account about the items on this page:

http://crosby-baker.com/index.php/bottl ... wires.html

I picked mine up from http://www.homebrew-supplies.ca/. They weren't super expensive, I just remarked that the money I spent on corks and cages was pretty much the same amount I spent on ingredients for actually making the beer. morebeer.com seems to have them for much cheaper though, and I am sure I will want some more when my current supply runs out.

If anyone wants to try corks and cages before buying a bunch, I have leftovers I would be willing to give out.

I would like to try one or two. More in particular, I'd like you to show me how you did the corking with a floor corker. At any rate, if we can manage to get these through C&B, the price should be pretty good, as they are the wholesaler.

For corking with the floor corker, we basically did it very carefully. We were unable to adjust the corker to stop when we wanted to, so we sort of had to eyeball it. Once we had it in as far as we wanted, we just pulled the rest of the cork through. Next time, I would probably mark off the approximate stop point I wanted. But since you aren't putting the cork all the way in, in most cases if you cork a bit too far or not far enough you can just pull the cork out and give it another go.

chalmers wrote: I'm not familiar with any cork-only beers, so I'm going to assume you're talking wine/mead.
I find it hard to believe that a cork&cap bottle would be worse off than a cap-only beer. Cork & cage will help to keep it on tight, and with the extra cork material there to help keep the airtight seal.
I guess our answers depend on what the OP was planning on doing: cork, cork&cap or cork&cage.

I was talking about bottling in general. Corks are naturally permeable to a tiny little bit of air. That's how aging happens in a fine wine. There's been an ongoing problem, though, with overcropping of the cork trees, and it's getting very hard to get quality corks. The result is that with natural corks it's becoming hit and miss whether you get "aging" or "taint". In a wine bottle, though, it doesn't matter how good the cork is to begin with, you'll get more air penetration if you let the cork dry. With a Saison cork (or Champagne, for that matter), it's going to be less of an issue because the composite cork is both more uniform and less gas-permeable due to the binders in the cork (and you're generally not planning to store the product so long), but even so it only makes sense to store it on its side.

I've never come across a bottle with cork and cap - what's the point? I agree the seal will be as good as with the cap-only, but you don't get the "look" of the cork. We long since stopped corking our champagnes - it may not look so good, but crown caps make a great seal.

Cantillon is corked and crowned, not sure of the reason they go for this technique.

I'm not sure why anything but a crown would be chosen for anything but high carb beers, but am willing to learn.

Well, there's a whole mystique to the opening of a Champagne bottle, and I suspect that it applies to popping a cork on a beer bottle too. I know, before I knew anything about beer except that Molson/Labatt/Carling were pathetic, I was fascinated by the Chimays I could occasionally get at the LCBO.

derek wrote:Well, there's a whole mystique to the opening of a Champagne bottle, and I suspect that it applies to popping a cork on a beer bottle too. I know, before I knew anything about beer except that Molson/Labatt/Carling were pathetic, I was fascinated by the Chimays I could occasionally get at the LCBO.

I agree... This is partly why I was drawn to the Allagash brews from Portland, ME. The wire hoods are a nice touch on an even better beer.

mr x wrote:

moxie wrote:I have always done it on their sides, label side up... I've been told conflicting opinions about synthetic corks... To each his own, I guess. I would really like to get some of those Belgian style corks/wires for future brews, I have not really heard much info on those either way. For some reason this is my plan for a black lager!

(Don't intend to hijack the thread) My storage problem is a little different... I am trying to figure out a way to store about 90 bottles of wine! Any of you guys build your own rack? A cheap/practical design is what I need. Hey, if you've got an old one kicking around, I'll be glad to take it off your hands. Please PM me a photo if you do.

I am also thinking about getting some belgian corks and cages, might have to gauge interest in a group buy. I buy my racks at NG, they are on sale half price at Quinpool for sure. Hard deal to beat.

Thank you for the heads up. Can't beat an 80 bottle rack for $30. There are still a few more for those looking for a rack.

I'm going to start a group buy thread for this.

moxie wrote:

derek wrote:Well, there's a whole mystique to the opening of a Champagne bottle, and I suspect that it applies to popping a cork on a beer bottle too. I know, before I knew anything about beer except that Molson/Labatt/Carling were pathetic, I was fascinated by the Chimays I could occasionally get at the LCBO.

I agree... This is partly why I was drawn to the Allagash brews from Portland, ME. The wire hoods are a nice touch on an even better beer.

The cork from my last Allagash hit the ceiling, ricocheted around the room, injured a pedestrian on the street, etc. Fortunately no beer was lost.