Yeast starter sugar?

[sleepyjamie]

The last few yeast starters ive made with NG Light DME has resulted in some beers which finished too high for my liking. Ive decided not to buy this DME anymore as I have had unsuccessful results with it.

I'm wondering what other sugars people are using to create yeast starter?

[mr x]

Are you doing OG's/FG's of your starters? I'd find it odd that the starter wort was the root of the problem.

[sleepyjamie]

Are you doing OG's/FG's of your starters? I'd find it odd that the starter wort was the root of the problem.

i've brewed a few 10 gal batches. split in two, used a fresh wyeast in one finished at 1.010 and the yeast starter finished at 0.018.

[sleepyjamie]

i havent measured the OG/FG of my starters. probably should start doing that. i typically use 1 cup DME in a 500ml flask.

[mr x]

There's soooo many variables in comparing the two methods. If it's repeatable, then there's something wrong. Try saving some wort from your next brew for a starter and see what happens.

[jeffsmith]

Or you could do a small BIAB mash to get some starter wort. That's what I've done for my last few brews. Doesn't take a whole lot longer but is a hell of a lot cheaper.

[Tony L]

You should really take gravity reading for a starter. Too high and you stress out the yeast just when you need it to multiply.
A starter of between 1030 and 1040 is good.

Also how much volume is your starter? And did you use a full pack of yeast in each? How well was you aeration in both batches? So many questions....

But, I doubt it was the DME. Light DME has more fermentable sugars than any other as far as I know.

[sleepyjamie]

You should really take gravity reading for a starter. Too high and you stress out the yeast just when you need it to multiply.
A starter of between 1030 and 1040 is good.

Also how much volume is your starter? And did you use a full pack of yeast in each? How well was you aeration in both batches? So many questions....

But, I doubt it was the DME. Light DME has more fermentable sugars than any other as far as I know.

volume is around 500ml. what would be a good size?

your probably right. measuring OG/FG is probably a good idea.

[mr x]

That is a realllllly small starter. Have you looked at the mr malty site for estimating starter sizes.

http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[jeffsmith]

volume is around 500ml. what would be a good size?

your probably right. measuring OG/FG is probably a good idea.

I would think that with a 500ml starter, you're likely just waking the yeast up and getting them active rather than propagating more cells. That could be the reason for the low attenuation. I never do starters less than 1L.

[GAM]

I would think that with a 500ml starter, you're likely just waking the yeast up and getting them active rather than propagating more cells. That could be the reason for the low attenuation. I never do starters less than 1L.

At least 1l.

Sandy

[mr x]

I've said this too many times, but 5l erlenmeyers are the only way to go. Just throw any spare change into a jar for however long it takes to afford one.

[jeffsmith]

I've said this too many times, but 5l erlenmeyers are the only way to go. Just throw any spare change into a jar for however long it takes to afford one.

Where is a good spot to grab something like that? Preferably online since I'm a marsh dweller.

[mr x]

online. I got them from brewmaster's warehouse and morebeer, but one of the suppliers here sells them, maybe that guy nobody likes, lol....

[Jayme]

I got a 5000mL one from morebeer during the last big sale they had (limit was 1 per customer unfortunately). I most definitely agree with too small a starter - just for fun I punched it into the mrmalty.com calculator and even if your pack of yeast was manufactured today, the minimum starter Jamil recommends is 1L for a 1.030 wort in a 5 gallon batch. 500mL stater is almost a waste of time - it's just as effective to pitch direct. So I suspect the DME isn't your problem (I've used it in the past with no problems, now I make my own starter wort and pressure can it to save money). Alternatively to the large flask, you can do constant aeration (with a sterile inline air filter) in a small carboy. The pitching calculator has a setting for that to compensate - not as good as a flask on a stir plate, but less expensive to set up.

[mr x]

There is an old thread around here I had set up for a 5000ml buy on flasks, but it's still waiting....

[Jayme]

There is an old thread around here I had set up for a 5000ml buy on flasks, but it's still waiting....

Yes they don't seem to go on sale that often unfortunately. I would have picked up a bunch on that last sale if they hadn't put the limit on.

[sleepyjamie]

i probably could just use a growler bottle?

[GAM]

I ust 3l cheap old wine bottles my neighbor gave me.

Sandy

[sleepyjamie]

i must be using the mr malty calculator incorrectly. there is an awful lot of space on the right side of the application and the calculate button does nothing.

[Jayme]

Yeah growler or 4L jug is better (I have a few for sale in the classified section viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2556 or you can buy new ones at Noble Grape). The one issue with constant aeration is you need a bunch of headspace for foam.

If you post what you're trying to calculate on mrmalty, I can punch it in for you and confirm if you're getting the right numbers or not.

[amartin]

I used to use a growler, until I broke it on the way to get it filled a few years back. Oops. I usually boil up 1 gallon starters in a 2 gallon pot (for 12 gallon batches), and then just cool the pot in the sink and pitch the yeast in there. The inside of the pot's already sanitized anyway, and there's plenty of headspace for overflow.

[Jayme]

I would still suggest using the pitching rate calculator - given that your viability rate will vary with age, your yeast starter has to adapt to that. Also the gravity of the beer it's going in effects the number of yeast cells required. While using a constant starter size would likely work, you do risk under or over pitching. It would also make it harder to replicate a beer time after time - although I know some people don't care about that.

[sleepyjamie]

ill try making a 1L starter next time.

do you guys pitch the entire 1L into the wort? or just the yeast that drops to the bottom?

[Tony L]

ill try making a 1L starter next time.

do you guys pitch the entire 1L into the wort? or just the yeast that drops to the bottom?

When I use liquid yeast, I'm doing a lager, and for that I do a 1 gallon starter. With that much volume, I cold crash and decant the spent wort
before pitching into a lager wort.

For an ale, if I were doing one with liquid yeast, I would still try to reduce the amount of spent wort going into my fresh wort.