Grainfather efficiency

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Ralph
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Grainfather efficiency

Post by Ralph » Mon Nov 15, 2021 2:03 pm

I am new to Grainfather and Brewnosers so apologies if this topic is already mined out. I'm a fairly experienced all grain brewer but my first run with a Grainfather gave disastrous efficiency (abut 55%) despite using my usual grain mill setting and following the mash and sparge volume formulas. If anyone can point me to resources for understanding this I would appreciate it very much. The grain was mostly fresh 2-row from Noble Grape, brand new bag. Untreated Halifax tap water (also new to me!). I have had good results with much harder tap water in other places. Wondering if I had the Grainfather driving instructions wrong, I was working from the Quick Start guide and thought I did what it said.

Cheers, Ralph

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Beert
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Re: Grainfather efficiency

Post by Beert » Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:08 pm

Hi Ralph,
Yep, that’s pretty low. I get ~80% consistently.
If you want to post the particulars I’d be happy to try to spot anything that might be the culprit.
I.e.
Grist bill, or at least the weight. I have experienced a fairly significant efficiency loss with large grist bills on the Grainfather.
Mash and sparge volumes.
Mash duration.
Cheers
Bert

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Re: Grainfather efficiency

Post by mdentremont » Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:36 pm

I have something similar going on but not quite as far off.

In my case I think it's a mix of BeerSmith profile needs tweaking, and also that I've been using the sight glass of the grainfather sparge water heater but dumping the entire thing. The sparge water heater's sight glass measures to the tap, and doesn't count the dead space.

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Re: Grainfather efficiency

Post by RubberToe » Mon Nov 15, 2021 6:55 pm

Also, if it's a dark beer with lots of roasted malts your efficiency will suffer of you don't treat your (soft) water.

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Re: Grainfather efficiency

Post by Ralph » Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:39 pm

Thanks for the thoughts. For Beert (great name) I can say I used 5.7 kg 2-row pale ale malt, ,23 kg crystal 60 and ,23 kg Cara pils. Mash volume was 19 L, sparge was 10 L, and it was a simple 1 hour at 65 degrees C. I know I could easily do a probably more effective temperature cycle with the GF but wanted to mimic what I would typically do with my good old picnic cooler mash tun.
Cheers, Ralph

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Re: Grainfather efficiency

Post by Beert » Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:09 am

Ralph wrote:
Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:39 pm
Thanks for the thoughts. For Beert (great name) I can say I used 5.7 kg 2-row pale ale malt, ,23 kg crystal 60 and ,23 kg Cara pils. Mash volume was 19 L, sparge was 10 L, and it was a simple 1 hour at 65 degrees C. I know I could easily do a probably more effective temperature cycle with the GF but wanted to mimic what I would typically do with my good old picnic cooler mash tun.
Cheers, Ralph
That grain bill mashed at 65 for an hour should have produced a solid wort and a good beer.
The only thing that I can see is that running the weight through the GF calculator it calls for 20.1 L mash water and 8.8 L sparge for a 19 L batch and 60 min boil.
Not sure if a 19 L mash would have such a negative effect on the efficiency.
What was the target batch size and boil time? And, just to try to rule out any H2O measuring blunders, what was the final volume in the fermenter and was GF pretty much drained?

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Re: Grainfather efficiency

Post by Ralph » Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:30 am

Thanks, Beert. Actually I used a mash volume of 20, not 19. I estimate that I got 21 L into the fermenter at the end vs my target of 20 L. I thought that was because the boil was not very vigorous and so the boil down was not as strong as the GF formulas assume. The GF was drained down to the pump intake filter. I did use 10L and not 8.8 L of sparge 'cause that's what the GF formula gave me, but I was including the crystal and carapils, maybe should not have? Can't see that affecting the efficiency too much anyway. I think GF procedure often employs a short period at higher mash temperature at the end- maybe that is critical when using GF? I did not do it. Cheers, Ralph

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Beert
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Re: Grainfather efficiency

Post by Beert » Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:43 am

Hey Ralph,
You were correct to include the C60 and Carapils in the grist weight, and with a 20 l target the h2o volumes should have been 20.1 and 9.8, which is pretty much what you used.
I generally just do a single temperature mash for an hour and then ramp up the temp to ~75 for 10 minutes for a mashout but the mashout isn’t necessary and wouldn’t decrease the efficiency.
It seems there was a bit more final fermentor volume than what was targeted which would effect your efficiency but not that much.
You mentioned you are confident in your grain grain crush, but maybe you could try a bit finer? I generally crush mine quite fine.
Any chance there was a mistake in the amount of grain?
In any case, with regards to your original post, the Grainfather can easily achieve 70+ % efficiency. I’m sure after a few more brews when you’re better acquainted with the system you’ll be able hit better numbers.
Cheers,
Bert

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Re: Grainfather efficiency

Post by Ralph » Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:55 am

Thanks Beert, I think a finer milling is probably something to try. It may be that the re-circulating mash setup in the GF is less forgiving of a coarser milling than my old sit-and-steep method. Not sure about the physics, but it seems like a possibility. Cheers, Ralph

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Re: Grainfather efficiency

Post by Ralph » Wed Jan 05, 2022 11:06 pm

Happy to report Grainfather delivered much better efficiency on second try with a finer milling of the grain. But it also delivered foam. It was a large grain bill (6.7 kg) to make a moccha porter. Some foam ended up going down the sides. Is this normal?

Ralph

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Re: Grainfather efficiency

Post by darciandjenn » Thu Jan 06, 2022 7:55 am

Was this hot break foam or during your mash? I never get foam during mashing... and for the boil, I always use fermcap because boil-overs suck.

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Re: Grainfather efficiency

Post by GAM » Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:03 am

I set my boil to 98" and watch the last 2' closely and skim.

S

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Re: Grainfather efficiency

Post by Ralph » Thu Jan 06, 2022 10:41 pm

Thanks darclandjenn, the foam developed gradually during the 60 minute mash and the 10 minute hot break. The amount of foam in the boil was just normal. I do have a silicon tube on the GF's recirculating arm so the recirculating wort is not just splashing down from a height. It was a 67 deg C mash.

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Re: Grainfather efficiency

Post by mdentremont » Tue Apr 12, 2022 10:26 pm

I just brewed again and managed to come within 2 OG points of my recipe. The main thing I changed was to mill my grain a lot finer and dropped my brew house efficiency in beersmith to 65%.

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