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Peyts wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:37 pm

I just brewed an Oak-Aged Saison this past weekend. Pitched a WLP565 (after a starter) on Sunday. It's fermenting well thus far.

I would like I age it with Bretts. I just got the Escarpment Labs Fruit Bomb Saison yeast... it is a blend with Brettanomyces.

The questions:

(1) When should I pitch the Brett blend? Immediately? At 50-60% complete fermentation? At the end of fermentation?

(2) Because it is a Brett blend, will I then need to essentially get new hosing, etc for whatever touches that yeast/beer? I understand that Bretts can "hide" in any crevices, creases or the like. But would a blend do the same?

(3) Any other input/advice?


Thanks a million!

ConanTroutman wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:15 pm

Peyts wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:37 pm

I just brewed an Oak-Aged Saison this past weekend. Pitched a WLP565 (after a starter) on Sunday. It's fermenting well thus far.

I would like I age it with Bretts. I just got the Escarpment Labs Fruit Bomb Saison yeast... it is a blend with Brettanomyces.

The questions:

(1) When should I pitch the Brett blend? Immediately? At 50-60% complete fermentation? At the end of fermentation?

(2) Because it is a Brett blend, will I then need to essentially get new hosing, etc for whatever touches that yeast/beer? I understand that Bretts can "hide" in any crevices, creases or the like. But would a blend do the same?

(3) Any other input/advice?


Thanks a million!

(1) Totally up to you! There's been a bit more research done on this now, I think there might be an Escarpment labs blog post or lecture on their YT about it (if I can find it I'll link to it). Definitely some good info on the milkthefunk wiki on pitching brett too. Long and the short of it is that it can be pitched any time. I personally tend to copitch with my sacc out of simplicity, but you can get different character out of it depending on when/what type of environment it's being put in. What sort of precursors are present in the wort from the grist, hops, or primary yeast strain will all make a big difference too.

(2) Like most things in beer, you'll no doubt find a lot of varying opinions on this. Personally, I don't separate my equipment at all, even plastic. If you can, obviously it isn't going to hurt, but my experience has been that thorough cleaning and sanitizing has been sufficient to avoid cross contamination. It certainly isn't the spectre necessary of an exorcism it's sometimes made out to be a least

(3) Only other thing I'd suggest is that since you're using a blend those *tend* to finish attenuating and develop character faster, so as soon as the beer stabilizes you should be able to package. Some brett beers can take awhile to fully mature but a blend like the fruit bomb should only need a month or two tops.

KB1138 wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:48 pm

(1) When should I pitch the Brett blend? Immediately? At 50-60% complete fermentation? At the end of fermentation?

Whenever you'd like. You can co-pitch along with your Sacch at the start or fermentation, after the Sacch is finished, or anywhere in between. The prevailing wisdom has usually dictated that you pitch once you've hit terminal gravity, but that's by no means a rule. Adding Brett while there's still plenty of fermentables left gives them lots to work on. There's no right or wrong answer there.

(2) Because it is a Brett blend, will I then need to essentially get new hosing, etc for whatever touches that yeast/beer? I understand that Bretts can "hide" in any crevices, creases or the like. But would a blend do the same?

Brett is a form of yeast like any other. It's likely already present in the wild in your home, and thus you're likely already killing it off any time you sanitize your brewing equipment. If you have plastics that are scratched or damaged, they should be replaced anyway, regardless of whether they come into contact with Bretted beer or not. Otherwise have at it.

(3) Any other input/advice?

Use a light hand with the oak, and take taste samples regularly. It's very easy to over oak a beer, and very difficult to get it out. Also, save me a bottle

mumblecrunch wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:28 pm

FWIW, if you want to know what the Fruit Bomb yeast does all on its own, the December 31st exchange beer was fermented with it. I didn't find it had a particularly heavy Brett character, but the beer was only a couple months old the last time I drank one.

Regarding equipment, one could argue that the WLP565 and the Fruit Bomb Saison yeasts are both already "dangerous" in that they're STA-1 positive and likely diastatic. Like others have said, clean clean clean, sanitize sanitize sanitize. I know my den is hopelessly infected with Brett at this point and all I can do is limit potential exposures of my wort and/or beer.

Peyts wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 04, 2021 5:02 pm

mumblecrunch wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:28 pm

FWIW, if you want to know what the Fruit Bomb yeast does all on its own, the December 31st exchange beer was fermented with it. I didn't find it had a particularly heavy Brett character, but the beer was only a couple months old the last time I drank one.

Regarding equipment, one could argue that the WLP565 and the Fruit Bomb Saison yeasts are both already "dangerous" in that they're STA-1 positive and likely diastatic. Like others have said, clean clean clean, sanitize sanitize sanitize. I know my den is hopelessly infected with Brett at this point and all I can do is limit potential exposures of my wort and/or beer.

THAT is my fear. Happy with the environment I'm working in now... really don't want it to change. That said, I didn't realize there would be any issues with the WLP565. Damn.

ConanTroutman wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:01 pm

Peyts wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 04, 2021 5:02 pm

mumblecrunch wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:28 pm

FWIW, if you want to know what the Fruit Bomb yeast does all on its own, the December 31st exchange beer was fermented with it. I didn't find it had a particularly heavy Brett character, but the beer was only a couple months old the last time I drank one.

Regarding equipment, one could argue that the WLP565 and the Fruit Bomb Saison yeasts are both already "dangerous" in that they're STA-1 positive and likely diastatic. Like others have said, clean clean clean, sanitize sanitize sanitize. I know my den is hopelessly infected with Brett at this point and all I can do is limit potential exposures of my wort and/or beer.

THAT is my fear. Happy with the environment I'm working in now... really don't want it to change. That said, I didn't realize there would be any issues with the WLP565. Damn.

Don't stress over it too much, as Kevin mentioned this stuff is everywhere. Yeast and bacteria already exist on almost every surface and in the air, which if you like things like sourdough or lambic is a good thing

Peyts wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:09 am

ConanTroutman wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:01 pm

Peyts wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 04, 2021 5:02 pm

THAT is my fear. Happy with the environment I'm working in now... really don't want it to change. That said, I didn't realize there would be any issues with the WLP565. Damn.

Don't stress over it too much, as Kevin mentioned this stuff is everywhere. Yeast and bacteria already exist on almost every surface and in the air, which if you like things like sourdough or lambic is a good thing

So would it be best to pitch / ferment in a separate room / area from my normal fermentation areas? Or does that not make much of a difference?

Also, I've decided to pitch the Fruit Bomb Saison at / close to terminal gravity from the WLP565. I'll transfer to secondary and then pitch the Fruit Bomb. How long should I leave it on the Fruit Bomb yeast cake? I know with Bretts you would typically leave for a few months... in this case, because it has Sacc. in the blend, do I need to be mindful of getting the beer off the yeast cake, or will the Bretts just consume the Sacc. cells and prevent autolysis, etc?

Thanks again very much for all the input. This is a new tangent for me.

ConanTroutman wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:54 pm

Peyts wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:09 am

ConanTroutman wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:01 pm

Don't stress over it too much, as Kevin mentioned this stuff is everywhere. Yeast and bacteria already exist on almost every surface and in the air, which if you like things like sourdough or lambic is a good thing

So would it be best to pitch / ferment in a separate room / area from my normal fermentation areas? Or does that not make much of a difference?

Also, I've decided to pitch the Fruit Bomb Saison at / close to terminal gravity from the WLP565. I'll transfer to secondary and then pitch the Fruit Bomb. How long should I leave it on the Fruit Bomb yeast cake? I know with Bretts you would typically leave for a few months... in this case, because it has Sacc. in the blend, do I need to be mindful of getting the beer off the yeast cake, or will the Bretts just consume the Sacc. cells and prevent autolysis, etc?

Thanks again very much for all the input. This is a new tangent for me.

Shouldn't have to change where you ferment at all.

Sacc won't affect anything, just means that the FB blend could be used on its own, in this case since you already used a
saison/diastatic strain in primary the beer will have mostly dried out already, so you'll be mostly pitching it for the brett that's included. Nice thing about brett is that as you say, autolysis doesn't tend to be a problem. You can leave a brett beer on a yeast cake for years with no ill effects, brett is good at making food/nutrients out of pretty much anything so most off-flavours that can be a problem in clean beer are rarely present in fermentations with brett. What you'll be more concerned of if you plan on letting it sit for more than a month or two is oxygen exposure, which can sometimes lead to undesirable levels of things like acetic acid or THP. That said, a month or two should be plenty of time for that blend, oxygen is more of a problem if you have too much headspace or have airlocks dry out over a long period of time.

ConanTroutman wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 06, 2021 2:49 pm

Up to you, I wouldn't bother personally but I'm also lazy. Not going to impact the beer at all at least.