Kegerators, Keezers...Who Needs Those Geezers!

[GuingesRock]

Mark, unfortunately, we're working with Pepsi kegs already. Good thought, though. I didn't realize Coke and Pepsi kegs differed in size. It's just going to have to be a one keg kegerator.

I'm not too put out by it. We have lots of bottles as well as the kegs and I'm brainstorming non-refridgerated ways to achieve cellar temperature without a cellar. If all else fails, and I really want to run more kegs, I'm not sure how opposed I am to room temperature beer.

-Kirsten

Kirsetn and Keely, I thought we could help you out with some ideas and options.

I keep Kathleen's dad supplied with beer. I give him a keg now and again. He keeps it in the porch and pours himself a pitcher, which he puts in the fridge. He's quite happy with that. It might be possible to get some sort of double walled pitcher with liquid between the walls that could be frozen in the freezer. Put the beer in that and you are ready to go.

On the Brewnoser's recent brew day, I was going to take some beer in one of my 1L stainless steel drink bottles. It was just washed in the dishwasher and not sanitized. I filled it from a picnic tap, running the beer down the side of the bottle while filling. When it was 3/4 full, the keg blew and also threw a bit of yeast in there, so I put it in the fridge and forgot about it. Ten days later we ran out of beer totally and decided to try it. It was perfect and still carbonated, and nice and clear. That's another option. You could have half a dozen of those (and another dozen for Kirsten ) It should be still good after a few days for sure, and don't worry if it spoils because you left it in there too long, you're not wasting much beer, and it will just taste a bit vinegary and be undrinkable.

If you are force carbonating at room temperature you will need higher CO2 pressures, but that's ok. It won't use more CO2 or anything, providing your line connections are good.

If you make good beer, it will be ok at room temperature, but don't, whatever you do, drink any Coors Light at room temperature...you'll throw up. You could try some heavy glass beer mugs (or the double walled plastic ones with the coolant between the walls) and keep them in the freezer.

I'm embarrassed to say that I have two beer fridges, all the kegs have picnic taps. The keezer holds five kegs, and the fridge which I swiped from work holds four. They need cleaning, maintenance. You have to lift the kegs in and out (full approx 50 lbs). They take up a lot of real estate space. They are expensive in terms of capital outlay, and electricity to run them, and we haven't even mentioned the carbon footprint.

"the difference between men and boys...the price of their toys"

[redoubt]

Hi Mark,

You make me sound like a lush! Not fair!

Thanks for the ideas. I feel like a total dork now, though. Despite often getting growlers from Paddy's and Sea Level that are no doubt done exactly like this, it never occurred to me that I could just fill a growler! Frosty mugs sound nice, too. Sold. We thought about a second kegerator but, if all it takes is a growler, pitcher or mug -- all on hand already -- then to hell with that.

-Kirsten

[GuingesRock]

Winter's coming. Outside becomes one bloody great fridge. Temperature control is a little tricky. The freezing point of beer at 4.6% ABV is -2.6 C, a 6.5% ABV beer freezes at -3.5 C (just Googled). On most winter days a person could put the keg outside by day and bring in by night. Great for crash chilling, or maybe getting some kegs of beer ready for a party.

Instead of brewing outside in the freezing cold, and keeping the kegs inside. Maybe it should be done the other way around.

[AllanMar]

It's probably worth mentioning that a lot of these methods will be problematic with higher carbonation beers. (loss of carbonation)

[GuingesRock]

It's probably worth mentioning that a lot of these methods will be problematic with higher carbonation beers. (loss of carbonation)

Thanks Allan, I was hoping for some discussion.

What you say is true, but easily managed.

Depending on the carbonation needed…

If you like your beer at 1 vol (not many do) but that’s what I like. Simply filling a pitcher to the brim, so there is little or no head space, and placing Ceran wrap over the top to keep the air out, and placing it in the fridge at 12C will maintain 1 vol of carbonation for many days, even weeks. If the Ceran wrap were to be completely airtight, the beer would remain carbonated at 1 vol for ever, since at atmospheric pressure and 12 C the solubility of CO2 is at 1 vol.

If the pitcher were half full, and placed in the fridge with no cover. It would slowly lose its carbonation, but that would take a day or two. Real ale in a cask that has been soft spiled, is at 1vol, 12C, atmospheric pressure, and doesn’t lose significant carbonation over the few days that it takes to empty a cask. CO2 loss is slow under those conditions.

For the majority in Canada who would prefer their beers to maintain carbonation at higher levels, there are two options. 1) Have the fridge set at a lower temperature than 12C (most are set lower than that any way) since the solubility of CO2 at atmospheric pressure is quite significantly dependant on the temperature of the beer. The other option would be to place the beer in a pressure tight container with little or no head space, such as a growler or SS drink bottle, as discussed. A fully sealed and gas impermeable container, will retain full levels of carbonation for ever (think, a bottle of champagne), regardless of temperature or any other conditions.

[AllanMar]

It's not that it doesn't retain the carbonation once sealed...

In my experience you always lose some carbonation while filling a bottle/growler, it gets more prevalent the more carbonated the beer (due to the reasons you mentioned). So you usually find after temps even out and everything else the beer you filled has lost some carbonation. You can over-carb to compensate, or counter-pressure filling though.

[redoubt]

Uh-oh. Problem solved but, Mark, we may have confused the take-home message from your original post. We bought a second kegerator. Might as well be hanged for a sheep as for a lamb.

Once I get around to it, I'll get a temp controller to keep one at cellar temp and maybe give this whole real ale thing a whirl. I'm intrigued, yours is fantastic, and there's certainly enough info on here to get going with it thanks to your experiments. I doubt CAMRA will give their stamp of approval to my future efforts but I can at least shoot for real ale ish.

-Kirsten

[GuingesRock]

We bought a second kegerator. Might as well be hanged for a sheep as for a lamb.-Kirsten

Oh! join the club Kirsten and Keely.

Thanks for the recommendation for my beer. That was a good keg we were seriously working on. I brewed another 3 batches of that IPA, but carbonated it all so I could have a choice for the Big Spruce comp. No where near as lovely. I'm hoping I can de-carb it after.

Good luck with the all-grain venture.

[GAM]

Mark

I have caps to carb in a 500l bottle if you want to carb and re cap.

Sandy

[GuingesRock]

Mark

I have caps to carb in a 500l bottle if you want to carb and re cap.

Sandy

It's all carbed now, but that's a brilliant idea. Thanks Sandy....Carb in a 2L pop bottle with a carbonator cap until it's good then pour into small bottles maybe. Isn't that what Gordon Strong does when he's blending his beer for competitions? (I think blending is cheating a bit)

[GuingesRock]

Was talking to Nash yesterday, and he says I can de carb my beer and take it back to 1 vol, but it won't go back to how it was because you lose your volatiles doing that.

In future I'm going to go with Sandy's idea, and carb with a carbonator cap in a 2L pop bottle for competitions, or leave it alone and take the penalty for low carbonation.

[redoubt]

Was talking to Nash yesterday, and he says I can de carb my beer and take it back to 1 vol, but it won't go back to how it was because you lose your volatiles doing that.

In future I'm going to go with Sandy's idea, and carb with a carbonator cap in a 2L pop bottle for competitions, or leave it alone and take the penalty for low carbonation.

Glad to hear you can decarb it; sad to hear that it won't be quite right. How do you go about decarbing it?

In any case, these are lessons I'm happy to learn through someone else's trial and error. This has been a useful discussion for someone just about to start kegging! I know one thing for sure: force carbing is not for me. I think I'll just let the yeast do its thing in my kegs and have a nice, natural carbonation. If a bit of yeast gets in a glass or two, so be it.

-Kirsten

[GuingesRock]

Was talking to Nash yesterday, and he says I can de carb my beer and take it back to 1 vol, but it won't go back to how it was because you lose your volatiles doing that.

In future I'm going to go with Sandy's idea, and carb with a carbonator cap in a 2L pop bottle for competitions, or leave it alone and take the penalty for low carbonation.

Glad to hear you can decarb it; sad to hear that it won't be quite right. How do you go about decarbing it?

In any case, these are lessons I'm happy to learn through someone else's trial and error. This has been a useful discussion for someone just about to start kegging! I know one thing for sure: force carbing is not for me. I think I'll just let the yeast do its thing in my kegs and have a nice, natural carbonation. If a bit of yeast gets in a glass or two, so be it.

-Kirsten

I think you just keep pulling up the safety valve and releasing the pressure, but suspect a lot of stuff escapes with the CO2. I get the impression that lots of people naturally carbonate on here, whether it's bottling, keg priming or keg/cask conditioning. You won't get yeast so no worries. I'm just drinking a crystal clear glass full of keg conditioned IPA (no finings).

[redoubt]

Wow! That is a crystal clear glass of beer! I'm rather jealous. I've got a glass of the Festa West Coast IPA, which is nice, but is not nearly up to par with your IPA. I may sneak a glass at Moovember...



-Kirsten