Sanitizing bottles in the dishwasher...

[dean2k]

Question: Top rack? Bottom rack? Doesn't 'effing matter?

[GuingesRock]

Did you notice the below that I posted yesterday on another thread?

When Cartoon Cod came around he detected a faint DMS/sulphur odour in my beer which I couldn't understand. My sister-in law detected it yesterday on a big heavy beer mug. Same beer in a different glass didn't have it. She knew immediately it was the dishwasher, and it's apparently a common problem in the wine business. I stuck my head in the dishwasher and it stank, as did the glasses in the cupboard.

I don't think it matters top or bottom shelf. Does your dishwasher have a sanitize setting?

Interesting! My sister in law was assessing my beers today. She has training in beer and wine tasting. She said I have to “watch my dishwasher”. She smelt the glasses in the cupboard all gleaming and clean and she pointed out they had a bad smell, and I noticed it too when she said that, talk about canned corn! Time for some Affresh I’d say. There are so many things to trip up a new brewer.

[dean2k]

Sorry, I didn't see that thread. Thanks for the feedback. But yes, I do have a "sani-rinse". Either way, I plan on doing on high-heat, heat-dry, and no detergent. DW was just recently Jet-Dry'ed so I'm hoping for no foul odours. Once out of the DW, they will be tuck away until bottling day at which point they will be subject to the Star San.

[GuingesRock]

Jet dry is a surfactant, and according to John Palmer it can affect the head on the beer, although he doesn't seem awfully sure about that. If it is true, it would also affect beer glasses and result in poor head formation. It might be another of those damn theoretical things. Either way, I don't have jet dry in the jet dry dispenser. If we want to use it for the dishes, we have it in those pellets that you can by that are soap and jet dry combined.

Edit...Just realized you were talking about Jet Dry dishwasher cleaner. I guess I should get some of that

...or Affresh. I wonder which would be the better option.

[gm-]

I use the hot pot and pan setting/hot dry with Cascade with bleach when I clean bottles in the dishwasher, I use both lower and upper rack. I still fill the bottles with star san solution afterwards, as I am quite paranoid about infections, but this has worked well so far.

[Ladd]

Most if not all dishwashers have a screen in the bottom to catch food particles, make sure you clean it well. That is usually where those "funky" odors are coming from. I usually give it a good cleaning and run a Finish dishwasher cleaner through it (empty) before doing my bottles. I also use both top and bottom racks and throw a splash of bleach in the bottom before starting it just to be sure. I never put soap in there, I clean the bottles before putting them in . I only use it for sanitizing. If you have the options, select the sanitize setting and/or high temperature rinse. I use both and have never head a problem. It gets hot enough for long enough in there to kill anything. If your dishwasher doesn't go a great job on your dishes, i.e. leaves residue of any kind, don't us it for your bottles.

Edit for spelling correction

[dean2k]

Thanks guys. I already ran the cycle before reading the the bleach suggestions. We'll see how it goes this time around.

[GuingesRock]

I have some concerns about heating bleach in a dishwasher as bleach turns into some pretty nasty chemicals when heated, sodium chlorate for example, which was once used as a weed killer (now banned because of human toxicity) and is extremely toxic.

[Ladd]

I have some concerns about heating bleach in a dishwasher as bleach turns into some pretty nasty chemicals when heated, sodium chlorate for example, which was once used as a weed killer (now banned because of human toxicity) and is extremely toxic.

Just read up on that and your right, heating it causes it to decompose to form sodium chlorate and sodium chloride (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_hyp ... #Reactions" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). Sodium chlorate however is readily water soluble (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_chlorate" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) and by the time the dishwasher runs through all of its wash and rinse cycles, any trace of it (which wouldn't be much to start with given you are only adding a little splash) would be long gone.

If you feel anyway uncomfortable using it, don't for sure. White vinegar is also a great way to freshen your dishwasher, just doesn't have the same sanitizing potential as bleach. Even at that, adding the bleach is completely overkill IMHO. The heat of the run alone is more than adequate to sanitize the bottles (providing you are using the sanitary run). Also to note, I wouldn't add bleach if your dishwasher has a stainless steel interior/parts, or if you are putting anything stainless in the run - thinking of your thermoses Mark!

[GuingesRock]

thinking of your thermoses Mark!

I know!, my precious thermoses

[gm-]

Just to clarify, I don't add bleach directly to the dishwasher, I use these: http://www.cascadeclean.com/us/cascade/ ... ach-action" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[dean2k]

Meh. High temp super Sani- everything cycle seems to have done the trick. At least for what I was after since I always rinse out the bottles after pouring anyway.

[akr71]

Jet dry is a surfactant, and according to John Palmer it can affect the head on the beer, although he doesn't seem awfully sure about that. If it is true, it would also affect beer glasses and result in poor head formation. It might be another of those damn theoretical things. Either way, I don't have jet dry in the jet dry dispenser. If we want to use it for the dishes, we have it in those pellets that you can by that are soap and jet dry combined.

ditto - use the sani-rise cycle with no detergent. If you want to use jet-dry, but a detergent that has it included.

My beer glasses never go in the dishwasher for the same reason.

[jeffsmith]

My beer glasses never go in the dishwasher for the same reason.

Same here, all painfully washed by hand in hot water and PBW.

[GuingesRock]

My beer glasses never go in the dishwasher for the same reason.

Same here, all painfully washed by hand in hot water and PBW.

Have either of you poured your beer into two identical glasses, but one washed in the dishwasher with rinse aid, and the other washed by hand, and if so, did you notice if there is a significant difference in the head. If so, that would be extremely useful to know, and I for one, would sit up and pay attention.

The tone of that sounds like I don't believe there would be a difference, but I do, the theory of it seems sound enough. I'm just looking to see if there is any practical experience around to go by also.

[jeffsmith]

I've never done a side by side, but I've noticed that on glasses washed in the dishwasher there is quite often carbonation streaming off points on the sides of the glass after a beer is poured, meaning residue is left on the glass.

[derek]

It doesn't necessarily mean that. Dishwashers also cause etching in the glass, which leaves nucleation points.

[jeffsmith]

It doesn't necessarily mean that. Dishwashers also cause etching in the glass, which leaves nucleation points.

I don't think it was etching, because after handwashing the same glass, it doesn't happen.

[akr71]

No, I've never done a side by side, but I'm with Jeff here. After I stopped putting my beer glasses in the dishwasher, I got much better head retention and none of the stream of bubbles Jeff is talking about. 'Beer clean glass' or not, I also don't want the dishwasher to fade that beautiful Brewnosers logo off the side of the glass.

Jeff, the dollar store sells something that looks like a little floor-mop. Its about a foot long and reaches down into the bottom of the glass nicely. No scalding your hands, no fear of the glass breaking and slicing your hand open. Well, less fear of slicing my hand open

little-mop-thing.jpg

[jeffsmith]

No, I've never done a side by side, but I'm with Jeff here. After I stopped putting my beer glasses in the dishwasher, I get much better head retention and none of the stream of bubbles Jeff is talking about. 'Beer clean glass' or not, I also don't want the dishwasher to fade that beautiful Brewnosers logo off the side of the glass.

Jeff, the dollar store sells something that looks like a little floor-mop. Its about a foot long and reaches down into the bottom of the glass nicely. No scalding your hands, no fear of the glass breaking and slicing your hand open. Well, less fear of slicing my hand open

little-mop-thing.jpg

Handy! Thanks!

[dean2k]

The best thing about Andy's post isn't the actual utility of the tool, but the fact that the jpeg title is actually "little-mop-thing.jpg"