Attenuation / dry hop questions

[Stusbrews]

Im noticing that ALL my beers are finishing lower than they are supposed to...Im wondering if this is normal, or am I messing up somewhere??
My smash was supposed to finish up at 1.012, and after a week, its at 1.007.
I think its about done, as its clearing, but it means its a) its drier than planned, and b) apparent bitterness isnt where it should be. Small differences, I know, and it is tasty, but still not where it was supposed to be.... or am I just being too picky?
Second dumb question:
is it better to dry hop warm? Or is it OK cool it down to 35/40F for ageing/hopping before kegging?

[Tim Gregory]

Are you doing all-grain or extract. Mash temp would be the biggest factor if all grain. Also, what yeast are you using?

I just dry-hop at ambient temp.

[Graham.C]

Are you doing all-grain or extract. Mash temp would be the biggest factor if all grain. Also, what yeast are you using?

I just dry-hop at ambient temp.

+1

I'm guess your doing AG because SMASH is hard to do otherwise. Try raising your mash temperature. How long you mash for can also play a role in the amount of fermentable sugars available. Fermentation temperature and yeast strain would be the next thing to look at.

I too dry-hop before the cold crash.

[akr71]

I can offer my opinion on the dry-hopping question. You'll get the aroma out of your dry hops faster at warmer temps, but I dry hop right in the keg, at serving temp. Some people say that leaving the hops in there so long will give you grassy or vegetative flavors, but I've never noticed. I don't mind grassy anyway. YMMV

[Stusbrews]

Yes, Im doing AG, and my mash temps are pretty good, altho I do tend to do 90 min mashes.
Yeast hasnt seemed to be the problem, as they all do it. I was blaming it on warmer ferment temps, but this one was at a steady 67 for the first time.
Guess Ill try mashing a couple degrees warmer than BS tells me and see where that goes .

too bad on the dry hop ...I was hoping to shave a few days off... might be carbed by hopfest.
hops are in, so need to wait for the week before kegging. PATIENCE!!! Grrrr...

[akr71]

longer mash = more time for enzymes to convert sugars = more simple sugars

I'd try a 60 min mash and see where that leads

[Graham.C]

I've hopped in the keg like Andy suggests, just make sure you use some sort of hop sock. I HATE getting shit stuck in the dip tube.

Also, does good mash temp mean stable or high or low? I like to do some beers high and some low, depends on style. A mash that starts at 154 and drifts down to 145 is not stable and will result in far, far more fermentables then a mash at 154 for the whole 90 min period. I find my MT is extremely good at holding the temp of big beers but much less stable with 10# mashes. That also reminds me, mash thickness might be an issue too, but I cant see it being the only issue with the numbers you suggest above. Do you check your pH?

[jeffsmith]

I find my MT is extremely good at holding the temp of big beers but much less stable with 10# mashes.

I found the same thing initially. I've since started laying a piece of foil over the mash when mashing smaller grain bills and it is a huge help in keeping the mash temp stable.

[Graham.C]

I find my MT is extremely good at holding the temp of big beers but much less stable with 10# mashes.

I found the same thing initially. I've since started laying a piece of foil over the mash when mashing smaller grain bills and it is a huge help in keeping the mash temp stable.

Good tip, thanks. I have been just doing no-sparge to get around it but I was teaching some people how to brew (with sparging) this weekend and forgot about it. Dropped to 143F by the end.

[BBrianBoogie]

What kind of thermometer are you using? Cheaper ones can be off by quite a few degrees.

Also, are you correcting for temperature on your gravity reading? If your sample is higher than 59-60F, the gravity is likely higher than your hydrometer is reading.

A smash beer with only base malt may finish lower than a beer with more unfermentables (i.e. a grist with crystal malts, etc) as well.

[Stusbrews]

WOW! Thanks for the responses guys! Its greatly appreciated.
My mash is really stable - 151 > 149 over 90 min, using a new big daddy thermometer for the last one (wasnt trusting the digital any more) , and yes, og/fg's are corrected., altho its only 1 point off at 70.
Ive been doing the longer mash trying to up my efficiency, but will try knocking it back to 60 for simple beers before upping my temps and losing even more efficiency. I would think BS would account for that tho, but maybe not. Ive tried putting some other temps in, but they come out all over the place, and it also tells me Im getting 95%atten from nottingham!
but its still yummy, even if it isnt exactly what I was shooting for, so alls good.

[Graham.C]

...but its still yummy

That's the important part.

With the group grain buy a 5% change in efficiency is not a big cost, something like 50 cents to a buck, so hopefully we can help get you dialed in without it hurting your budget. The closer you can get to your target FG (or at least know why you are off) means the more consistent you can be which helps tune your craft. Of course balance is personal choice, but I imagine you posted here because you want to try and bring up your FG. I would try the shorter mash or a higher mash temp, if it works (or not) let us know! We are all continuing to improve and everyone's experience helps.

[Stusbrews]

[quote="Graham.C" ] Do you check your pH?[/quote]
I do believe I found(and fixed!) My efficiciency/attenuation problems...thanks to Graham...
the ph thing is a mystery to me, so decided to try the ph5.2 stuff. Seems to be magic!
I was expecting about 60-65efficiency on my tripel, but hit 74...og of 1.080 and it finished at exactly 1.011 just like it was supposed to.
I just finished mashing a smaller blonde, and was shocked to see an 84% mash efficiency!
Im thinking that stuff really does work! Keeping fingers crossed anyhow...

[mr x]

[NASH]

is it better to dry hop warm? Or is it OK cool it down to 35/40F for ageing/hopping before kegging?

Its always better to dry-hop warm. And the side bonus is it's way faster.


Transmitted from the hop-phone.

[NASH]

longer mash = more time for enzymes to convert sugars = more simple sugars

I'd try a 60 min mash and see where that leads

That's news to me! Fuck. Perhaps if you leave it mash a day or two it'll ferment down to 0.988?

What's tour liquor to grist ratio? That will make a huge difference in fermentables. Also have you calibrated your thermometer?





Transmitted from the hop-phone.

[Stusbrews]

Ive been using beersmith numbers, which works out to ~1.4qt/lb, and used 3 different thermometers, which all agree within a degree or so. I think the problem has been the ph all along, but I didnt realize that till I used the balancer, which seems to have done the trick.
Guess Im gonna hafta bone up on ph, if not water treatment...my head hurts just thinkin about it!

[akr71]

longer mash = more time for enzymes to convert sugars = more simple sugars

I'd try a 60 min mash and see where that leads

That's news to me! Fuck. Perhaps if you leave it mash a day or two it'll ferment down to 0.988?

I know that's a simplified view, but I've had bad luck with mashes shorter than 45min. Perhaps I shouldn't have said simple sugars, but more time for the enzymes to work on the long chain carbohydrates and sugars.

[NASH]

Ive been using beersmith numbers, which works out to ~1.4qt/lb, and used 3 different thermometers, which all agree within a degree or so. I think the problem has been the ph all along, but I didnt realize that till I used the balancer, which seems to have done the trick.
Guess Im gonna hafta bone up on ph, if not water treatment...my head hurts just thinkin about it!

1.4 qt/lb is like 3.5:1 which is somewhat high for N American infusion mash brewing. But at that ratio you'll have a less fermentable wort than with a thicker mash! Ahaha What is your water source, HRM or?

[NASH]

longer mash = more time for enzymes to convert sugars = more simple sugars

I'd try a 60 min mash and see where that leads

That's news to me! Fuck. Perhaps if you leave it mash a day or two it'll ferment down to 0.988?

I know that's a simplified view, but I've had bad luck with mashes shorter than 45min. Perhaps I shouldn't have said simple sugars, but more time for the enzymes to work on the long chain carbohydrates and sugars.

Whatever works for you and your setup is ultimately the best thing to do. Sounds like you have the opposite problem that Stu has A lot of it depends on the malt crush, equipment, vorlauf time and method, malts used and a ton of other variables. Brewing for me is quite a bit different since I'm using professional equipment in a somewhat more controlled environment plus my malt is milled to spec and sieve tested every time, full malt analysis every time.... it all helps to reduce variables making it a lot easier to pin things down. Oh, plus I have a PH meter! *cough*Stu*cough*

[Stusbrews]

Lol. Yes, a meter is on my wish list, but waaaay down there. My biggest obstacle is the lack of working brain cells.....but Im gonna blame it on ph all the same. Its still coming out as beer!

[NASH]

Lol. Yes, a meter is on my wish list, but waaaay down there. My biggest obstacle is the lack of working brain cells.....but Im gonna blame it on ph all the same. Its still coming out as beer!

Ahahhaha

[akr71]

Whatever works for you and your setup is ultimately the best thing to do. Sounds like you have the opposite problem that Stu has A lot of it depends on the malt crush, equipment, vorlauf time and method, malts used and a ton of other variables. Brewing for me is quite a bit different since I'm using professional equipment in a somewhat more controlled environment plus my malt is milled to spec and sieve tested every time, full malt analysis every time.... it all helps to reduce variables making it a lot easier to pin things down. Oh, plus I have a PH meter! *cough*Stu*cough*

The 'water treatment plant' that they built in Amherst since you left is great for dark hoppy beers. pH 8.1, high in sulphate, high in bicarbonates, low in calcium...