First All Grain Gone Wrong

[GillettBreweryCnslt]

So after finally negotiating time to brew with the wife I was pumped to finally brew my first all-grain batch (our 4 month old has been taking up all of my brewing time :lol. However I don't think it went well. The OG is only 1.032 when it was suppose to be 1.052 Here's what I did:

I crushed my grains (as per the recipe below). I based my water volume calculation on BrewSmith's number ad then heated my water to 158F. I then added the grains first, then water to my cooler tun and mashed for about 70 minutes. It was only a 5 gallon batch so based on the grain to water ratio (~ 1.5 l/lb) and some reading I've done I decided to do the single step mash (no sparge). When I took the OG from the wort draining form the tun it was a dismal 1.026. I also noticed that the volume wasn't enough for the boil. So I heated another batch of water and sparged with a gallon and a bit of water. After another hour the resultig mix of the sparge and mash had an OG of 1.032. What happened?

Did I simply not allow the mash to sit long enough? I though 70 minutes would be plenty. Was the temperature off? Should I ignore the ratios and just mash with half my water and sparge with the other half? I'm at a loss.

I tasted it and it's definitely not as good as my last batch of this beer that was an extract brew. As expected, it's pretty weak. I'm considering throwing this out and trying again.

Here's the recipe:

Type: All Grain
Date: 11/5/2011
Batch Size: 18.93 L
Boil Size: 24.28 L
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Brew Pot (7.5 gal) and Cooler (48 qt)

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
7.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 70.00 %
0.75 lb Brown Malt (65.0 SRM) Grain 7.50 %
0.75 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 7.50 %
0.75 lb Carstan (35.0 SRM) Grain 7.50 %
0.75 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 7.50 %
2.00 oz Fuggles [4.30 %] (60 min) Hops 31.0 IBU
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) Yeast-Ale

Thanks
Dave

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.052 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.032 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.013 SG Measured Final Gravity: 0.000 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.20 %
Bitterness: 31.0 IBU Calories: 293 cal/l
Est Color: 27.7 SRM

[ajcarp]

I certainly don't claim to be an all-grain expert, having only done 3 batches that way myself, but it looks to me like your problem was your water strike temperature. From my memory, again may be faulty, for good conversion results, your mash temperature should end up between 152 - 156 deg F. My calculator, Homebrew formulator, shows me that with your grain bill, 10 lbs, the strike water should be 2.5 gal. at 170 deg F. This would give a mash temp of 154 deg F.

You must get your mash to this temperature or else conversion will not occur effectively. Things you, and I need to do to make sure this happens;
1. Use your thermometer to check the mash temperature at least once at the start of the mash. Make sure it is high enough.
2. Get some iodine and learn how to do a conversion test to make sure enough of the starches are turned into sugar. Note to self, learn to do this yourself.

Hope this doesn't steer you too wrong.

JLC

[akr71]

I certainly don't claim to be an all-grain expert, having only done 3 batches that way myself, but it looks to me like your problem was your water strike temperature. From my memory, again may be faulty, for good conversion results, your mash temperature should end up between 152 - 156 deg F. My calculator, Homebrew formulator, shows me that with your grain bill, 10 lbs, the strike water should be 2.5 gal. at 170 deg F. This would give a mash temp of 154 deg F.

You must get your mash to this temperature or else conversion will not occur effectively. Things you, and I need to do to make sure this happens;
1. Use your thermometer to check the mash temperature at least once at the start of the mash. Make sure it is high enough.
2. Get some iodine and learn how to do a conversion test to make sure enough of the starches are turned into sugar. Note to self, learn to do this yourself.

Hope this doesn't steer you too wrong.

JLC

What John said. If the temp is too low add boiling water - too high add cold water. I usually aim for about 1 to 1.25 qt mash water / pound of grain.

[sleepyjamie]

you can also measure your gravity before the boil (make sure you adjust your OG based on the wort temp in your hydrometer). if you find the gravity is not what you need then add some DME to bring it up.

[chalmers]

Add another +1 to the water temp camp. In the way I've got BeerSmith set up, it will give you two water temps: what the strike water should be at, and what the mash temp should be (10-15 degrees lower). The reason is, your cooler and grain will be at room temp, and so the strike water will lose a significant amount of heat during the transfer from HLT to mash tun.
That may not explain all of the lost gravity, but certainly a significant portion.

To save it, guys, could he add some LME to bump up the gravity? I'm assuming you've already pitched the yeast?

[mr x]

You can still add lme and other sugars later. But IBU utilization will be off. Might not be enough to make a difference.

[Graham.C]

I might be wrong but at a low mash temp you would still get dissolved carbs, just not fermentable sugars. Unless I am mistaken, your gravity should still be on, but your FG would be closer to the OG if you are out of range in your mash. That's why the starch test is important, mash controls the conversion of starches in your solution through specific enzyme activity (is it ok to call it wort at this stage?). More complex carbs (like starch) are still soluble, they are just not fermentable. Again, someone correct me if I am wrong.

How did you crush your grain? If it was your first time, perhaps the husks were still too intact to get a proper infusion?

[mr x]

There's another issue - how's your crush, and what are you figuring on for efficiency?

[derek]

... I based my water volume calculation on BrewSmith's number ad then heated my water to 158F. ... When I took the OG from the wort draining form the tun it was a dismal 1.026.

You do realize that there's a hefty adjustment to be made for warm wort, I hope (heftier than I realized until I was measuring my last batch after mash and it seemed far too low!)

If your wort was 150F coming out of the mash tun, http://dd26943.com/davesdreaded/tools/convert.htm says it's a real SG of 1.046.

[GillettBreweryCnslt]

Hey Everyone,

Thanks for the advice, I've figured out my issue. It was my thermometer. I was using a digital thermometer that I acquired through one of m jobs working in a scientific lab. It turns out that it was reading about 20-30F off of the real temperature. I confirmed this tonight using 2 other thermometers. So my mash temperature was pretty off.

My crush is good, I have a grain mill that I've been using for the last year for partial mashes, I'm not too concerned about that. And my experience with partial mashes is another reason this threw me into a panic, I wasn't expecting any surprises. I had an old candy thermometer that I had been using and I found my digital one. I thought I'd "upgrade". Oh, and I did correct for temperature after taking the OG.

I also thought about boiling up some DME, hopping that mix and adding it to the wort and I also considered brewing another 5 gallon batch with a OG, that when mixed with the first batch, brings the entire 10 gal to the correct OG. However the point that Graham makes about soluble starch leads me to believe that neither of those would work. Any thoughts on that?

[mr x]

That's a good question for Nash on the starches. But I believe blending works either way.

[Keggermeister]

I am coming in late, as usual. I agree with the consensus, you really need to figure out your temperature differential for your system. this takes some playing with to achieve. Everyone gets to know theirs from experience.
My first AG batch was much like yours, It might have hit 145 or so. In the end it still made beer and I drank it. Don't sweat it too much. That is how things go.

Next time use a couple of thermometers, You probably won't trust one for a long while. I know I don't. Take mash temperatures a lot. At least every 10-15 minutes. You will find cold and hot spots from time to time. Stir. Relax and have a beer, after all this is what it is all about.

[akr71]

Nice Avatar!

[GillettBreweryCnslt]

I am coming in late, as usual. I agree with the consensus, you really need to figure out your temperature differential for your system. this takes some playing with to achieve. Everyone gets to know theirs from experience.
My first AG batch was much like yours, It might have hit 145 or so. In the end it still made beer and I drank it. Don't sweat it too much. That is how things go.

Next time use a couple of thermometers, You probably won't trust one for a long while. I know I don't. Take mash temperatures a lot. At least every 10-15 minutes. You will find cold and hot spots from time to time. Stir. Relax and have a beer, after all this is what it is all about.

I understand that now. Thanks. If it wasnt midnight when this all happened I might have knocked on your door to seek guidance!

I'm going to pick up some decent thermometers before my next batch. Just to be sure.

I'll ferment the batch, see what comes out of it. If I todd it then, it's only about $14 and I can say i tried.

[derek]

Next time use a couple of thermometers, You probably won't trust one for a long while. I know I don't. Take mash temperatures a lot. At least every 10-15 minutes. You will find cold and hot spots from time to time. Stir. Relax and have a beer, after all this is what it is all about.

Well, shit! That's my brewing problem - I'm not drinking enough beer during the process...

[sleepyjamie]

Now that we are discussing mashes, has anyone ever done any 24 hour mashes before?

[Graham.C]

It's really simple to calibrate your thermometers. Just stick them in some boiling water and check what they are reading (should be 100C at this elevation) then stick them in some water with ice cubes (should be 0C). If they are off either of those you can do a little math to fix them, or toss them out and get new ones that the gradients are spot on. This will also take the worry away from your next batch, and wont require you to have a dozen thermometers sticking out of your brew on brew day.

Cheers,
Graham

[mr x]

Now that we are discussing mashes, has anyone ever done any 24 hour mashes before?

Never. When I've been pressed for time, I leave hot wort in the BK overnight.