Discouraged

[HopGrower]

The rumor of yet another microbrewery planning to open in NS (Tatamagouche), I fear I may be too late with plans of starting one myself. Does anyone here think that maybe this province is starting to become overrun with small-scale breweries, and that they've has become too trendy/fad too fast? Can Nova Scotians support all of these breweries, and will they? Are too many people destined for bankruptcy?

And with all of these new breweries, do you think there'd be a demand for suppliers? Maltsters perhaps? Growing hops locally seems to have taken off lately, though I'm not sure how well it's doing - still pretty early. Has anyone tried growing/malting Marris Otter here in NS, or any other 2-row? Any serious holes in the industry that anyone's aware of?

[bluenose]

Hard to say, but I think it all depends on how big each one is planning to get. If they're all trying to get to the level of Garrison or Propeller, then there will be saturation for sure, but if they are aiming to keep it to a local level then they might have a chance. Then again, I'm not sure if an area the size of Tatamagouche is big enough to keep one viable in the long run. I would assume there's a fine line between growing large enough to keep it viable and small enough to stay lean and mean. That might be why brewpubs tend to be somewhat successful. They're not relying solely on craft beer drinkers.

If it truly is your passion do something like this, then it will show in your product and service, and you will be successful. Build it and they will come so to speak.

[mr x]

I think growing hops is a practical waste of time, although it sounds good for marketing purposes. IIRC, Randy Lawrence was experimenting with malting. But I think that's a glorious waste of time and money.

There's always room for a quality brewery AFAIAC.

[berley]

There's always room for a quality brewery AFAIAC.

Agreed. It would also help if breweries made a point to find their niche. For example, Maine has lots of quality breweries, but a lot of them are different in some ways... Allagash brewing Belgian beers, Maine Beer Co. does a lot of hoppy beers, Bull Jagger is lagers only...

[mr x]

I'm waiting for Pete's to put one in downtown Windsor. In fact, the next time I see him.....

[HopGrower]

My fear is that most people aren't really looking for quality. They want cheap swill; Hence the Coors Lite, Keith's, & Budweiser popularity. Nova Scotians *could* support it, but will they?

Why is malting a waste of time/money? Too many larger, high-quality maltsters already? Or is it a climate thing?

[mr x]

I think malting is waste of time due to economies of scales, so to speak. And your other 2 points.

People still want quality, but you need a plan for what you want to do and where you want to do it.

[wortly]

My fear is that most people aren't really looking for quality. They want cheap swill; Hence the Coors Lite, Keith's, & Budweiser popularity. Nova Scotians *could* support it, but will they?

Why is malting a waste of time/money? Too many larger, high-quality maltsters already? Or is it a climate thing?

Just some quick comments...

- There are plenty of mediocre breweries on the East Coast making a shit-tonne of money. I would agree with X that there is always plenty of room for more breweries who are focused on quality.

- Hop growing is hard work and expensive to start up (7-9K per acre). If you are willing to slog it out for 5 years, and if you have a brewery that will be willing to pay $15/lb., then there is money in it.

- The malt industry is on the cusp of (re)developing here. We are involved with some malt barley variety/quality trials over the next 5 years and things are looking pretty good. Breweries are behind this big time. Malting barley on the East Coast is tough though, we have some environmental conditions/diseases that can easily mess the whole thing up. FWIW marris otter is a protected variety, so you don't have a chance in hell of getting any. If you are interested in which varieties work here, pm me and I can send you some of our data and where to source some seed. Micromaltsters are a definite possibility here. A place called Valley malt in MA is doing quite nicely with this concept.

-If you are not a farmer, I would probably not attempt to grow hops or barley at the commercial scale. There is a serious learning curve and without knowledge of some basic agronomy and availability of the right equipment, you will set your operation back years. Farming is definitely not as easy as brewing.

[HopGrower]

-If you are not a farmer, I would probably not attempt to grow hops or barley at the commercial scale. There is a serious learning curve and without knowledge of some basic agronomy and availability of the right equipment, you will set your operation back years. Farming is definitely not as easy as brewing.

Grew up farming. Never malted. Read about it on the inter-weeb though!

I'm going to plant 1/4 - 1/2 acre of 2-row this spring, just to see what all is involved.

[derek]

My fear is that most people aren't really looking for quality. They want cheap swill; Hence the Coors Lite, Keith's, & Budweiser popularity. Nova Scotians *could* support it, but will they?

Why is malting a waste of time/money? Too many larger, high-quality maltsters already? Or is it a climate thing?

Most people don't particularly want swill - though cheap is good - they just don't like beer!

The problem with malting isn't a climate thing - our climate is fine for growing barley. But malting is something that lends itself very well to economies of scale, so local malting has died out almost everywhere, in favor of no more than a few large maltsters per country.

I think this link has been posted before: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/13/dinin ... d=all&_r=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Note how he points out

“We’re probably the biggest buyer of local grain in Massachusetts, but we’re barely anything on the beer scale of things,” Mr. Stanley said. “People do one-off batches with our malt. We have nowhere near the capacity to support a brewery.”

There aren't too many "high-quality maltsters", but it's hard to justify paying the premium when you can't count on a steady supply.

[wortly]

-If you are not a farmer, I would probably not attempt to grow hops or barley at the commercial scale. There is a serious learning curve and without knowledge of some basic agronomy and availability of the right equipment, you will set your operation back years. Farming is definitely not as easy as brewing.

Grew up farming. Never malted. Read about it on the inter-weeb though!

I'm going to plant 1/4 - 1/2 acre of 2-row this spring, just to see what all is involved.

If all goes well, plan on 20% of the harvested grain to be suitable for malting. I would recommend var "Cerveza" from Eastern Grains Inc. as probably the best variety for malting on the East Coast. You should move on this if you are interested as there are a lot of people who will be trying this out this year. Let me know if you want info on fertility, seeding rate etc.

[Cheesehead]

HopGrower, what are you looking at for production / batch and annually? Is this a part time or full time gig?

Have you talked to the guys at Picaroons? Sean Dunbar is far and away the most helpful guy in the Maritimes in helping other start up - ask Brian Titus, the guys in Norther NB in Shiretown, Big Spruce, Stephen Dixon is brewing at the Brewtique[ - what more can you possibly say? Sean is adamant about growing the craft beer market and will do whatever he can to help.

[HopGrower]

I've kept it pretty quiet so far; I haven't really talked to anyone seriously about it yet. I'm still trying to put together a business plan.

And I'm still trying to better my beer -- to the point where I'm happy with it. I want to rock the f*ck out of people when they taste it.

[chalmers]

I'd echo the ideas above: there's plenty of room for quality breweries.
If you're looking for honest feedback on your beer, you'll find no better group than the Brewnosers. If it means anything to you, there will be a dozen more BJCP certified judges in the Maritimes come April.

[akr71]

Then again, I'm not sure if an area the size of Tatamagouche is big enough to keep one viable in the long run.

Tatamagouche seems mighty small to support a production brewery. However, as long as they make good beer, and the aim is to supply the local area, the more the merrier. At least Lantz is along the highway, so if you have a leg up on getting fresh beer into the city. Plus, beer geeks like me would stop in on the way to the city - the beer would have to be OUTSTANDING for me to drive to Tatamagouche, and its pretty much in my back yard.

Garrison & Propeller seem to be focusing on getting their beer into Ontario & west, which creates more opportunity for good Nova Scotian beer, IMO.

[chalmers]

Big Spruce in Nyanza, Cape Breton, will be opening soon, and from the outset will sell kegs in Halifax, as well as their local pubs. There are good bars in town that will support good breweries.

[mr x]

Although we are yet to see if BS is a good brewery...

[bluenose]

Then again, I'm not sure if an area the size of Tatamagouche is big enough to keep one viable in the long run.

Tatamagouche seems mighty small to support a production brewery. However, as long as they make good beer, and the aim is to supply the local area, the more the merrier. At least Lantz is along the highway, so if you have a leg up on getting fresh beer into the city. Plus, beer geeks like me would stop in on the way to the city - the beer would have to be OUTSTANDING for me to drive to Tatamagouche, and its pretty much in my back yard.

Garrison & Propeller seem to be focusing on getting their beer into Ontario & west, which creates more opportunity for good Nova Scotian beer, IMO.

The only other thing going their way is being along the sunrise trail... I like taking that drive on a lazy day, and would likely stop in for a beer or two.

[akr71]

The only other thing going their way is being along the sunrise trail... I like taking that drive on a lazy day, and would likely stop in for a beer or two.

True enough. I live on the Sunrise Trail (well, Sunrise Trail Coastal Route), but rarely make it farther than Northport or Amherst Shore. If there was a good beer waiting for me, you're right, I would travel a little farther, at least during the summer.

Now that I think of it, if they positioned themselves to be the sole supplier for the Tatamagouche Oktoberfest, they'd likely do quite well for themselves. And that event is in dire need of proper beer.

[HappyHopper]

I'd echo the ideas above: there's plenty of room for quality breweries.
If you're looking for honest feedback on your beer, you'll find no better group than the Brewnosers. If it means anything to you, there will be a dozen more BJCP certified judges in the Maritimes come April.

Charmers I met a young lady today that's teaching a corse for people to get their bjcp certification.. I think her name is Kate. Is this what your referring too? She said they would love to do another one if there's enough interest and I want in!

[Jimmy]

Charmers

That's your new name, Chris...Charmers

[chalmers]

Oh great!

HH, did you mean Tracy? Then yes. That's us.

[HappyHopper]

Sure we will go with Tracey lol small blonde girl that loves beer?? I have a bad memory with names and such.. Excellent I'm in if it happens again.

[Graham.C]

Yeah that sounds like Tracey.
This thread is dead now, but it probably wouldn't hurt to put your name on the list. I'm sure it will be the first stop for Jeff and Tracy when/if they run another class.
http://www.brewnosers.org/forums/viewto ... =42&t=1634" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[HopGrower]

With the recent announcement of Wrought Iron Brewing coming here, I think it's official; Microbrewing in Halifax is now officially a fad. I give it 5-7 years before it dies out.

I'm out.