Wayfarer's Ale - Thread not started by GRock (See OP)

[LiverDance]

Hopefully my math is correct.

1.5 million litres a year
20bbl setup
20 x 117L/barrel = 2340L
1500000 / 2340 = 641 batches
641 batches/ 365days = 1.75 batches per day

That's a lot of brewing, you guys are ambitious

[Jayme]

Your humble opinion is appreciated Mr x. Alexander Keith, interestingly enough wasn't an accredited brewer, nor qualified at all in brewing, learned his trade on the job at Bogg's Brewery and from his uncle. Freemason and politician yes, but like many brewers who created some of the finest beers of the last century, had no formal qualifications.... he was actually a businessman who was mainly an assurance, investment and building society director. He also made beer.

This is straight up, a horrible example. Just saying. Some guy with a house hold name started a brewery of unknown size (probably is written down, but not mentioned here), producing beer that none of us would have been alive to try, I could be remembering this incorrectly, but I thought when Oland's first bought the company way back in the day, Keith's was in financial ruin? Regardless of that being correct or incorrect, it's still a bad example.

I think there have been both success and disaster stories about breweries being started with non-professional brewers. I guess the bottom line is you're not likely to sway the beer savvy folks on this website without a solid 'beer plan'. Having a reputable brewer or consultant on board would stack the deck in your favour, in my opinion, and possibly give you better credibility (within the Brewnoser community at least).

[GuingesRock]

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[jacinthebox]

I too have dreams of opening a brewery, shared with my Brathairs.

we have so much to learn about making beer...I hold this craft in high regard, and don't take craft brewing lightly

I wish good luck to anyone that takes their dream to the next level...I just hope that anyone that gets into the craft as a business, is doing it because they love making great beer....not just in it for profit (stupid ideological thought I know).

Someday (date TBD by lotto winnings) Brathairs will have a brewery (indoors I hope/I f'ing hate winter)....It's already posted on my dream-board

[mr x]

Personally, even a consultant wouldn't be enough for me when it comes to brewing. That model hasn't worked too well in this province AFAIAC.

At one time, I was thinking about doing an apprenticeship with Greg through Davis out of the states. The course itself was going to run 6-7 grand, maybe run 6 months IIRC. That would give a person a piece of paper and experience worth something.

Seems to me this offering thought of a lot of things. But I'm not getting a fuzzy feeling on an unknown entity in the critical path. Good luck for sure, but this isn't for me. But I'm not a CEDIF fan anyway. And as far as I am concerned, this province it fucked anyway.

[mcgster]

Just to go over what i took from reading the offering document.

CEDIF offering is:
Offering 1000 shares at $1000 each. Each share is 1 vote.
Minimum required shares are 450.

Currently the ownership of the company is broken down as follows:

Christopher & Avril Killacky: 25%

Chirstopher Killacky – Occupation not listed on document but LinkedIn has it as Theology professor @ Acadia University.

There was a section of council minutes from wolfville where he was looking for an amendment allowing him to brew beer at his residence and sell it at the local farmers market.

Detlef Heiss: 25% - Employment not listed on the offering document but Linked In has it has an Independent Computer Software Professional originally from Vancouver BC.

Jamie Aitken: 25% - Pharmacist / pharmacy manager 2011 to 2012

John McNeil: 6% - Owned 3 Pharmasave stores 2002 to 2012

Georgie McNeil 6% - Pharmacy consultant 2004 to 2014

Achal Mishra: 7% - Assistant Professor of Pyschiatry @ Dalhousie.

The names above will represent 44% ownership of the brewery.

The document also lists shares as Class A and Class B

Class A Common Shares: 200 Shares, 5000 / Share, 1 vote / share
Class B common Shares: 100 Shares, 0.01 / share, 10 votes / share

Note the vote difference,

So the brewery will go ahead and shares will be cashed in if they sell 450 shares. This leads to the obvious question of how the brewery can be built and operated on 450,000 when the plan is to raise 1,000,000.

The document makes reference to Annex E (brewery equipment) and annex F (building core cost) but they aren’t attached to the document. These would be essential to see.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/1 ... crobrewery" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[GuingesRock]

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[mcgster]

Where would this information be found it wasn't listed in the offering document.

You haven't taken into account the amount invested by the people you listed.

[GuingesRock]

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[mcgster]

Since the combined stake is 44% of a brewery that is offering the remaining 66% for 1,000,000 i would assume that Killacky has 110,000 invested, Heiss has 110,000 invested, the McNeils would each have 26,400 invested, and Mishra would have 30,800 invested.

That may not be the case, but i'm also curious how this works if they don't raise the whole 1,000,000 as then the ownership of the other 44% should represent a larger portion but there is no information on the document about it.

[GuingesRock]

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[mcgster]

Indeed i did, theoretically he should also have 110,000.

[bluenose]

great analysis everyone

I'm thinking the CEDIF route is becoming popular due to the tax incentives. Not just with this brewery, but also with wind farms.

I do like the idea of encouraging people with money to invest to put it into local projects. We need to start creating opportunities throughout the entire province and not just in HRM.

[chalmers]

As I said earlier, I am a fan of the CEDIF model, just turns out I chose the wrong one to start with! Having to pay less taxes = you have my attention! And local is nice, too.

Not Wayfarer's fault, it is unfortunate that many of the business plan details are not disclosable due to regulations. If anything, if the province were regulating what could be revealed, it would be more, not less. Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding the situation.

I believe 20hl is smaller than the current brewhouses that Propeller and Garrison have, at 30hl (or maybe 30bbl). PEI Brewing is also of a similar size. They would be entering the market at a similar size as Boxing Rock. And they've done quite well in our province (and are now expanding to NB). Brewing 12 times/week is not unreasonable, but certainly would require time and several more brewery employees.

[saosborne]

I think some of the point has been lost here. an investment is an investment. investing locally is good, investing in beer, well that's just cool, I can say I'm part owner in a brewery. Investments are to make money no matter what a company is selling. I honestly dontthink a company goes out to make a bad product especially when its driven by a passion like brewing. I don't think that the focus should be on how many letters are behind a brewers name but how the marketing is going to be setup. selling the product no matter how good it is really is what it is about. there are alot of great craft breweries that have gone under as well as alot of crappy beer being produced making billions. As i've learned; It's one thing to be proud of what you're doing, but its another thing to make money at it.

[mcgster]

I think some of the point has been lost here. an investment is an investment. investing locally is good, investing in beer, well that's just cool, I can say I'm part owner in a brewery. Investments are to make money no matter what a company is selling. I honestly dontthink a company goes out to make a bad product especially when its driven by a passion like brewing. I don't think that the focus should be on how many letters are behind a brewers name but how the marketing is going to be setup. selling the product no matter how good it is really is what it is about. there are alot of great craft breweries that have gone under as well as alot of crappy beer being produced making billions. As i've learned; It's one thing to be proud of what you're doing, but its another thing to make money at it.

So we should invest our money whether we think the beer will be good or not because its beer, its local, and its cool....

frys2.jpeg

[saosborne]

an investment is just that, an investment to make money with (hopefully). if you want to invest in beer, go buy a keg

[AllanMar]

an investment is just that, an investment to make money with (hopefully). if you want to invest in beer, go buy a keg

I think the main criticism here was the lack of information about the viability of this investment. Which is critical to make an informed decision on an investment.

[mr x]

an investment is just that, an investment to make money with (hopefully). if you want to invest in beer, go buy a keg

OK....by that rationale, just throw money at ideas without due diligence? If I want to invest in oil, go buy some 5w20?

[saosborne]

OK....by that rationale, just throw money at ideas without due diligence? If I want to invest in oil, go buy some 5w20?

no the point i was trying to make was the exact opposite of that dont throw money at ideas without due diligence. If i'm to invest $1000 into something i'd like to see more info regarding a business plan,how and where its sold, how it will be marketed, etc. whether its beer, oil, or widgets the point for me investing is to make money regardless of the product being sold (within the confines of the law of course) As im sure there is a plan, with so many people putting their time and money into it I havent been able to find any info on it. It seems like a really risky investment to begin with and im not seeing anything to reassure me

[dean2k]

And with all due respect to those who are starting this up, and those who are investing.... this went from an application to Wolfville town council for a variance to allow for a nano operation in Mr. Killacky's basement to a full-blown fairly large brewing operation in a few short months. There a metric shit tonne of questions that arise from that. Potential investors have every right to ask the hard questions, and be satisfied with the answers, before investing in 'healthy heritage ales'.

[mcgster]

And with all due respect to those who are starting this up, and those who are investing.... this went from an application to Wolfville town council for a variance to allow for a nano operation in Mr. Killacky's basement to a full-blown fairly large brewing operation in a few short months. There a metric shit tonne of questions that arise from that. Potential investors have every right to ask the hard questions, and be satisfied with the answers, before investing in 'healthy heritage ales'.

Well put.

[LiverDance]

the focus should be on how the marketing is going to be setup.

I've paraphrasing but I don't believe that this is the way the craft beer scene is working now at all. It's all about the beer!

[GuingesRock]

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[mr x]

From what I've heard here, I'm not sure it is possible to 'fully investigate' the project.