Wayfarer's Ale - Thread not started by GRock (See OP)

[wortly]

And a number of trained chemists, some belong to the American Institute of Brewing Chemists.

I think you mean American "Society" of Brewing Chemists. Great chemists, not exactly known to be great brewers.

Just to explain a little, this is a big seven figure operation that has to deliver a number of parameters concurrently. It has to deliver building, equipment, employment and follow agreed government regulations that accompany the CEDIF and Securities Commission as well as the Finance Minister's Office and CRA. This then has to move into a production phase in the context of a vertical integration business model that will deliver 1.5 million litres a year of first class beer to the domestic and export market whilst maintaining control of quality and marketing etc.

Was this cut-and-pasted from the Executive Summary?

It's more complex, and relies upon a team of committed individuals and the Wayfarers' Ale Society

Perhaps you should call it an "institute".

I am so sick of business types pushing the corporate agenda in the name of "the craft beer community". Frankly, Randy Lawrence actually started a brewery as a brewer, which is what he would say his job is. It is looking like a bunch of business people are going to set up a mega-lo-mart brewery in his parking lot for the "benefit of the beer community".

Definitely more of a fan of the "Lawson's Finest Liquids" or "Hill Farmstead" models than this corporate shyte.

And for those reasons... I'm out.

[bluenose]

Perhaps you should call it an "institute".

I am so sick of business types pushing the corporate agenda in the name of "the craft beer community". Frankly, Randy Lawrence actually started a brewery as a brewer, which is what he would say his job is. It is looking like a bunch of business people are going to set up a mega-lo-mart brewery in his parking lot for the "benefit of the beer community".

Definitely more of a fan of the "Lawson's Finest Liquids" or "Hill Farmstead" models than this corporate shyte.

And for those reasons... I'm out.

Welcome to the Brewnosers' Dragon Den Mutha Fukkers!

[mcgster]

A german background in brewing, or just a guy who is german.

If the latter i'm not sure what this has to do with brewing. It may be a minor point but you had me on the whole local brewing co-op idea but i'm very comfortable with the quality beer produced by Canadians. Telling me that there is someone who is german brewing doesn't help sell me on the local theme. Mind you if he was trained in Germany as a brewing tech i can see the merit in that (although german style beer are not my favourite the skills would be valuable).

I don't think we'd see a brewery in Germany advertising that some Canadian guy is brewing. Its a minor point but i'm proud of the beer produced in Canada and a local brewery should be too.

Hello, there is no one brewmaster, there is one very able technician with a German background and a precise mind. And a number of trained chemists, some belong to the American Institute of Brewing Chemists. But we all brew. As we move forward and keep to the business plan roles will change and appointments will be made at the proper time. Just to explain a little, this is a big seven figure operation that has to deliver a number of parameters concurrently. It has to deliver building, equipment, employment and follow agreed government regulations that accompany the CEDIF and Securities Commission as well as the Finance Minister's Office and CRA. This then has to move into a production phase in the context of a vertical integration business model that will deliver 1.5 million litres a year of first class beer to the domestic and export market whilst maintaining control of quality and marketing etc. It's more complex, and relies upon a team of committed individuals and the Wayfarers' Ale Society which also exists and contributes to the testing, marketing and distribution. It's taken 2 yrs to put together and provides a very good opportunity for a community to invest in a brewery. That opportunity does not exist anywhere else. Other breweries, for good reasons, have opted to keep what is owned in house. You can drink 'their' excellent beer but not invest, but with Wayfarers' Ale you can drink 'your' beer and invest in the CEDIF with much of the money coming back to you.

We would like to share what we are doing and welcome anyone to drive to Wolfville and meet us and see if we are really up to this ... please come, this really is an excellent investment opportunity and is a one off. Very genuine group interested in investing and keeping our money in Nova Scotia.

[GuingesRock]

...........

[dean2k]

It's not negativity, it's due diligence.

[mcgster]

This isn't a thread about a new brewery starting up it is a thread looking to get investors for a new brewery. There is a massive difference between the two. If you are not hyper critical of someplace where you will investing your money then your money won't last very long in life.

I looked at this thread as a legitimate spot to invest some money and became very uneasy when i saw certain comments, chief among them the chemists comment and the "german" comment. I feel that these are two things people would say to me to try and goad me into an unwise investment. Does that make me a dick or aggressive? Maybe... but when it comes to separating my cash from my wallet i have the right to be overly protective.

To me an investment pitch would have a business plan, analysis of the market, expect time to return a profit, dividend schedules.. etc.. not that we have a bunch of chemists and some german guy.

This isn't a friendly discussion about a brewery starting up its an investment pitch, surely you can see the difference. If this were the former i would never have made those comments myself.

Why all the aggression? I don't understand. Chris is excited about the whole thing and gets carried away. He has a vision and a dream. He can look at a group of chemists, and to him they are beer chemists. I have a Cicerone beer server’s exam, and he keeps calling me a Cicerone, when he’s around here, and I keep telling him I’m bloody well not. But, he is the kind of person who can take a romantic dream forward to fruition and success. He has a remarkable history of doing just that. I don't see any deliberate deceit going on, and from what I’ve seen, this thing is going to be amazing. A chemist who subscribes to, reads and understands a journal on beer chemistry, could potentially be of some value in keeping up to date with that kind of thing. Just like a beer server's knowledge of styles, their history, legality of selling alcohol etc, might be of some use.

[GuingesRock]

..........

[Keith]

Regardless, referring to a group of people as "motha fuckers" can't be that productive.

I heard someone made a living off it. lol

[Keith]

imbedded youtube wouldn't work

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0LBi1MHoaU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Jimmy]

Most of the questions asked have been surrounding those involved, as well as the product itself:

Who's the brewmaster?
What is a technician with a German background? Is it someone who works on Volkswagens (Nick, is it you? )?
How are the beers? What kind of beers?
What is the American Institute of Brewing Chemists, and what benefit does someone who is a member of this bring to a brewery?

I think any of those questions are legitimate questions that anyone looking to invest should have. You need to know what is going to make this brewery succeed. With that being said, it's already been proven that you can pump out shit beer and it will sell because it's "local/craft".

[Jimmy]

imbedded youtube wouldn't work

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0LBi1MHoaU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You just have to remove the "s" after http.

[LeafMan66_67]

I tend to agree that this discussion isn't really about negativity, but more about unanswered questions and due diligence before parting with hard earned cash on what appears to be a risky investment. Personally, I have no interest in investing in this not only because of some of the missing information and the lack of responses to previous membership questions (Wayfarer Ale Society) but also because I don't have $1000 to throw at my own brew gear, let alone someone else's with little or no gain.

Having said that, would I welcome another craft brewery into the province? Definitely. Do I wish them success? Sure, as long as it doesn't crush Sea Level in the process. Will I buy their product? Yes, I will try it. Whether I continue to purchase it will depend on the quality, styles and availability.

My two cents worth.

[bluenose]

Welcome to the Brewnosers' Dragon Den Mutha Fukkers!

Why all the aggression? I don't understand...

Sheesh Gwingeez... you should know by now that I'm just stirring the pot

[Jimmy]

even if you can't invest then you're invited over for a pint!

And despite the "criticism" (I say criticism but it's really just questioning) on the forums, I'm willing to bet most of us will try the beer..and if it's good, most of us will continue to buy the beer. In the end, this community supports great beer, but we're quick to question and/or criticize someone making bad beer, or acting in a negative way for the beer community.

[mr x]

My 2 cents. If you are building a million dollar brewery, I want to see an accredited brewer.

Also, there is criticism still due to more than one of this province's newer breweries due to technical flaws. As mentioned above, call it 'craft' and hipsters will climb all over it. This is not a hipster forum, thank Christ.

The ability to brew great beer at home definitely does not translate well to large scale brewing without brewing education IMHO.

[mcgster]

Your humble opinion is appreciated Mr x. Alexander Keith, interestingly enough wasn't an accredited brewer, nor qualified at all in brewing, learned his trade on the job at Bogg's Brewery and from his uncle. Freemason and politician yes, but like many brewers who created some of the finest beers of the last century, had no formal qualifications.... he was actually a businessman who was mainly an assurance, investment and building society director. He also made beer.

*** Grabs popcorn and waits ***

[GuingesRock]

............

[LeafMan66_67]

Your humble opinion is appreciated Mr x. Alexander Keith, interestingly enough wasn't an accredited brewer, nor qualified at all in brewing, learned his trade on the job at Bogg's Brewery and from his uncle. Freemason and politician yes, but like many brewers who created some of the finest beers of the last century, had no formal qualifications.... he was actually a businessman who was mainly an assurance, investment and building society director. He also made beer.

I think the difference here would be

learned his trade on the job,

much like an apprenticeship program where you learn your trade under a master trades person.

[Jimmy]

Your humble opinion is appreciated Mr x. Alexander Keith, interestingly enough wasn't an accredited brewer, nor qualified at all in brewing, learned his trade on the job at Bogg's Brewery and from his uncle. Freemason and politician yes, but like many brewers who created some of the finest beers of the last century, had no formal qualifications.... he was actually a businessman who was mainly an assurance, investment and building society director. He also made beer.

Are you suggesting Alexander Keith brewed great beer? I've never tried his beer, so I wouldn't know. I have tried his beer brewed by a professional brewer, and it was a tasty beer. Alexander Keith's beer that is currently being sold is garbage..I mean, it's a great product "technically", however the beer sucks.

I don't think it takes an accredited brewer to brew great beer, but having confidence in the brewer before investing would be fairly important to me.

[dean2k]

And 20 bbl right off the jump! Holy cow!

[Keith]

having confidence in the brewer before investing would be fairly important to me.

I say we invite the Wayfarer's and their brewers to a BN meeting and suggest they bring a sample of their beers they plan to offer. This would allow us to sample the product and assess the quality of the product prior to investing and allow us to provide accurate feedback to the community.

[Jimmy]

having confidence in the brewer before investing would be fairly important to me.

I say we invite the Wayfarer's and their brewers to a BN meeting and suggest they bring a sample of their beers they plan to offer. This would allow us to sample the product and assess the quality of the product prior to investing and allow us to provide accurate feedback to the community.

But good beer brewed by Guinges doesn't mean good beer at the brewery.

a) Guinges isn't the brewer
b) Brewing on a homebrew setup and brewing on a 20bbl setup are nowhere near the same. If I brewed a beer that I thought was a fantastic homebrew on a 20bbl system, I can tell you right now that it would be garbage. I have no clue on scaling up to that size, the inner workings of a brewery like that, etc. The processes are not the same when you're dealing with equipment of that size.

Yes, if you're a knowledgeable brewer, it's likely fairly easy to scale a homebrew sized batch up to a 20bbl setup..but that's assuming the brewer already knows how to use both setups, efficiencies, processes, etc.

In the end, it really would just take the right person brewing, with the right person consulting...

[GuingesRock]

............

[Jimmy]

That's the bit I've been pondering, and as usual, the obvious answer is to consult an expert. Whether that would be paying consultation fees to someone like NASH, or employing a qualified brewer. I don't think you can employ a brewer or advertise that you have a brewer with x number of credentials, before you even have a brewery, and maybe a year out from having a brewery.

To me, a professional brewer should be consulted in the planning stages - just for example, DME's opinion on a brewery design may not be what a professional brewer would suggest. My thoughts on the whole consulting situation could be totally different depending on who the "professional brewer" consultant was.

Also, I would never try to open a brewery without having a plan on how I was going to go about brewing the beer.

[bluenose]

Whether that would be paying consultation fees to someone like NASH, or employing a qualified brewer...

hahaha