Another Brew-On-Premise Article

[derek]

NSLC should have been SLAMMED by the court for starting and then dropping the action they started against not 1, but 2 separate companies. But nope.
I very much doubt either was even awarded legal costs, let alone business/reputation loss.
Its the government, so their own rules dont apply to them.

The courts can hardly slam the NSLC - sure, it's an arm of the government, but the injunction law was made specifically to allow a crown corporation to do what should rightly be the domain of the government itself. Once the government said it would change the rules, the NSLC had no choice but to drop the request for an injunction. The alternative was to wait for the proceedings to restart at which point the judge would summarily dismiss the request. The defendents would then have had to start their own suits to recover costs and damages - but they'd never win because they _did_ break the law, and they all know it - read everything Ross Harrington has said: he knows very well it was illegal, but he was challenging the law because he felt he could force a change. As for "business/reputation loss", what do you think they've lost? They spent a few weeks not taking new u-vint customers (which, until some time in the future they don't actually have a legal right to do anyway), but didn't lose any of the wine that was being fermented at the time the NSLC filed for the injunction. Everybody in the province who makes wine, now knows three places they can get it done for them - NG and others who are doing the same thing didn't get any of that free advertising.

And, btw, it was 3 separate companies - the Wine Kitz businesses are unrelated corporations who each own a Wine Kitz franchise.

[derek]

I'm still not voting for Ross Landry. I don't trust these bastards. What will they do? And does anybody know the tax implications in the other provinces?

In Ontario, you pay normal sales taxes.

[Jimmy]

I'm still not voting for Ross Landry. I don't trust these bastards. What will they do? And does anybody know the tax implications in the other provinces?

In Ontario, you pay normal sales taxes.

On everything (ie: kits, ingredients, service), or just the service?

[derek]

And yet, Bill 120 still exists. Who will the LC turn their attention to now? Private Stores? Wineries? Bootleggers?

Bootleggers seems likely. What laws are the private stores and wineries breaking?

[derek]

I'm still not voting for Ross Landry. I don't trust these bastards. What will they do? And does anybody know the tax implications in the other provinces?

In Ontario, you pay normal sales taxes.

On everything (ie: kits, ingredients, service), or just the service?

On everything - you'd have to pay sales tax on the ingredients anyway.

[CorneliusAlphonse]

On everything - you'd have to pay sales tax on the ingredients anyway.

we don't pay sales tax on ingredients here...

[Dirt Chicken]

I guess the next thing the province should work on is the high cost of having a liquor license. By no means will we see any micro brewery operations offer more than a 2oz sample here without being taxed to bankruptcy

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[mr x]

Ross Landry was on CBC radio this morning to deny that this change in policy was about money. Allow me to point something out to all of you, that was printed in the paper of record in his home riding.

http://www.ngnews.ca/News/Local/2011-12 ... islation/1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The province's chief medical officer says any law that limits people's consumption to cheap alcohol is a good thing.

Dr. Robert Strang said when Nova Scotia's finance department asked his opinion on whether there should be amendments made to the Liqour Control Act that would specifically target U-Brews and U-Vines, he said he was in favour of such a change.

I put forth to society the theory that Mr. Landry is either an idiot or a liar. The sooner he is gone, the better.

[Dirt Chicken]

The way that the media has spindoctored this while issue into a political thing is the funny part. Very far from the point, in print

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[derek]

I put forth to society the theory that Mr. Landry is either an idiot or a liar. The sooner he is gone, the better.

I've disagreed with you a lot on this whole issue - but you know what they say about politicians:

Q: How can you tell a politician is lying.
A: His lips are moving.

I don't trust any of them - there are just a very few I don't trust a little less than the rest.

Of course you missed option 3: he could easily be both...

[derek]

On everything - you'd have to pay sales tax on the ingredients anyway.

we don't pay sales tax on ingredients here...

Well, hell, I really should check my invoices more carefully. Just checked the Visa statement for the two wine kits Marta bought from NG a couple of weeks back. Sure enough, no tax. I guarantee you, Ontario never missed that opportunity. Given the NS government's concern about loss of revenue, I'm stunned that they haven't long-since taxed wine- & beer-making supplies.

[mr x]

Yeah, they are all scuz. He's just the latest in a never ending line of dirtbags. What I fear is new taxes on ALL ingredients, whether made in store or out. If that truly happens, we have gone backwards at a personnel level. We now subsidize brew shops and people who want to make the liquor in store. Not the greatest scenario for us. It can always get worse than it is now, and I'm not sure people have clearly thought that out. You can bet that the next legislation will be final, and there will be taxes in it, despite Ross's claims that this wasn't about the money. Then you are stuck with it for life.

[derek]

Yeah, they are all scuz. He's just the latest in a never ending line of dirtbags. What I fear is new taxes on ALL ingredients,

I think we can be certain that HST will be applied, but I think that's as far as it will go. I'm just totally amazed that HST doesn't apply now.

[mr x]

And just fucks everyone in favour of a few businesses. In fact, the government may very well make out like bandits here.

[Jimmy]

I can somewhat understand adding it to "Kits", but I'd be pissed to see it added to ingredients on their own.

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[McGruff]

How can they tax food? Grains, hops, yeast etc. Isn't it all food? I ordered all of these from a GTA HB shop. No tax.

[derek]

How can they tax food? Grains, hops, yeast etc. Isn't it all food? I ordered all of these from a GTA HB shop. No tax.

Well, no, it's not all "food" as far as tax people are concerned. In Ontario, PST was always considered "luxury" tax, and applied to anything you didn't absolutely need to get by. No, they can't tax grains, but I'd have expected it to apply to hops & yeast. The sales tax situation on edibles is actually quite a bit better in Nova Scotia, though it still came as a complete shock that they aren't taxing wine kits.

[mr x]

I wouldn't be too quick to assume they won't tax malt and extracts.

[McGruff]

Yea, any Province in Canada which thinks about taxing something we all enjoy will do it in a heart beat.

[LeafMan66_67]

http://www.thechronicleherald.ca/busine ... -tax-rates

The provincial government pays for a lot of our public services with the profits from the sale of alcohol. It is that, rather than red tape, that led to the recent crackdown on in-store winemaking and brewing.

Among the voices of outrage was Richard Dunn of the Canadian Federation of Independent Business who said the law is anti-competitive and threatening the underpinnings of a free market. Others accused the government of police-state harassment and Gestapo-like tactics.

Opposition leaders enthusiastically piled on. Government beat a hasty retreat.

The comments by Dunn and others ignore the fact that liquor distribution in Nova Scotia is anything but a free market. Rather it is a government-owned near monopoly and a huge money spinner. In the most recent fiscal year it earned $220 million for government, in addition to HST.

Our prices for beer, wine, and spirits are high, not because the Nova Scotia Liquor Corporation is particularly inefficient, but rather because of the fat profit margins it has been instructed to earn. A $10 bottle of wine includes about $1.50 for expenses, $1.30 for HST, $.50 for federal excise and customs, and $3.75 for profit. Less than $3 is for the product.

A proliferation of tipplers getting their wine and beer from businesses like Wine Kitz could put a serious dent in the province’s finances. So the government’s actions were about protecting the treasury, not tying small businesses up in red tape.

The u-vint and u-brew operations are not yet a significant factor, so retreat may have been the right choice in the short term. But they may now start to grow rapidly. The customers of in-store wine and beer making do very little of the work, so it is primarily a way of depriving government of their usual taxes and profit.

This may be superficially satisfying, but if the government doesn’t get its money this way it will eventually have to raise our already high sales and income taxes. That said, prosecution was a rather heavy-handed tactic. There are other ways to address the problem.

A better response would be to phase in a $5 tax to u-vint product, about what government usually gets in tax and profit on its least expensive wine. (It is neither necessary nor practical to impose a tax on those who make wine or beer at home).

As well as protecting the provincial treasury it will help protect Nova Scotia’s vineyards, which are likely to be negatively impacted by the u-vints.

Nova Scotians who travel to the United States will have noticed that wine selling there for $10 frequently costs twice as much in Nova Scotia. Most of the extra helps to prevent our sales and income taxes from being even higher. At least in Canada the idea of balanced budgets as a goal is still in fashion, while in the U.S.A. it is often lost in a blizzard of partisan finger pointing.

Perhaps taxpayers will take some consolation knowing that expensive drinks help pay for our health care. Those who are really determined to keep their hard-earned cash out of government hands could just switch to tea.

[mr x]

Bill Black is an idiot. That article is so shitty, I don't even know where to start.

[LeafMan66_67]

Bill Black is an idiot. That article is so shitty, I don't even know where to start.

[mr x]

Maybe we all pay high taxes already because rich sleaze have found out how to avoid paying theirs....

[CorneliusAlphonse]

Bill Black is an idiot. That article is so shitty, I don't even know where to start.

the only thing i agreed with was "It is neither necessary nor practical to impose a tax on those who make wine or beer at home".

[elreplica]

Greetings fellow Brewnosers,

While I might be a little late finding and posting to this forum, I would like to set the record straight on a couple things. First, Ontario U Vints/Brews/ supplies are currently tax exempt as they are in NS. Second, I wrote to Mr. Dexter and Mr. Steele (when he was minister) regarding the illegality of such premises. I did offer to a fellow Brewnoser Chalmers, to forward my letters and replies to post but didn't hear back. Anyway, I did write the Chronicle Herald and posted to the Opinions comments on the matter a few times. Historically, in 1994 the NDP Bob Rae govenrnment imposed a $0.26 per litre tax on brew/wine which wiped out approximately 60% of these small businesses. I do most of my brewing/vinting at home, but do enjoy the cameradie and experience that those premises offered me during my twenty something years in Ontario. Having C02 and other supplies and expertise close by was a welcome convenience. I look forward to such services in or near my community as Noble Grape in Bayers Lake is a 50 minute drive. Cheers!
•Don Graham @ the Doh Hel Brewery outside Bridgewater, NS
-Festa Brown ale, Brewhouse Red bottled, BH American Premium lager in primary, nothing kegged as my f**king C02 is empty!