Another Brew-On-Premise Article

[bluenose]

Ok Mr. X, I think now is the time for you to help me build a still

[sleepyjamie]

What next? They take away my meth lab?!

[Dirt Chicken]

Ok Mr. X, I think now is the time for you to help me build a still

Yes Yes, DIY still101!!!

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[weir]

What boggles my mind is that the same company who has 100% of the retail rights is also the same entity who sets and polices the market. Even if you buy in a non-NSLC store (ie Premier Wine & Spirits) they're still getting their cut, but they can also police the rules that allow them to control and maintain their monopoly.

I would also love to boycott the NSLC, but unfortunately for those of us who don't live in Halifax, that majorly restricts where we can buy from if at all. Even with that said, they still take their cut.

Ultimately the two best ways to hit them are in their pockets (brew and share as much of your own as possible), and at the ballot box. The NDP has done nothing but hurt small business (I work for my one owned by family) and the NDP is responsible for handing this power over, so our best protest is to show them we don't want them to lead our province.

Sorry for political comments, but we need to support these guys no matter how long it takes to get a coupled packages of yeast

[jacinthebox]

If BOP was simply a person renting space for the purpose of brewing their own product, I wouldn't see an issue...but BOP (in some cases) has become Brewer for hire...people paying for a finished product, while not paying the liquor tax...that's wrong...every other brewer has to pay the tax...it's not home brew if someone else is brewing and bottling it for you.

Those taxes fund programs, your programs...

so if the BOP folks follow a rule that the will only sell raw materials, and rent space to brew, I have no issue.

Now if they wanted to tax our raw materials and kits...I'd have a big problem with that

[derek]

Ultimately the two best ways to hit them are in their pockets (brew and share as much of your own as possible), and at the ballot box. The NDP has done nothing but hurt small business (I work for my one owned by family) and the NDP is responsible for handing this power over, so our best protest is to show them we don't want them to lead our province.

Sorry for political comments, but we need to support these guys no matter how long it takes to get a coupled packages of yeast

The problem is that you can't change this by voting for another party. EVERY NS party opposes BOP. The NDP didn't set this system up, and the Conservatives have arguably been the worst.

[mr x]

Every party does not oppose this. And the NDP did set up the law now being used. The way to punish them is to vote them out.

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[mr x]

That tax argument has many gaping holes. Too many for my Nexus S, but very little tax money is lost, unless the money saved by a fermented volume is spent out of province. You'll save more by hacking down bloated nslc management salaries....

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[Juniper Hill]

Let's face it. We are being taxed to death out here. My hard earned tax $$ is being sqandered left, right and center by those that should have a clue about fiscal responsibility. I have no problem with BOP, but I do have a problem with the inflated taxes we pay via the NSLC.

[CorneliusAlphonse]

Every party does not oppose this. And the NDP did set up the law now being used. The way to punish them is to vote them out.

hardly. the NDP did exactly what every other provincial party would have done if they were in power - they were pressured by a department that makes a big chunk of revenue for them, and in the face of little public outcry, they passed the law. voting them out over this issue won't change anything, no more than voting out the PCs 4 years ago. both parties are complicit. this law has been outdated compared to other provinces for longer than an election cycle. the continuing public outcry is the only thing that will change it.

[chalmers]

The problem is that you can't change this by voting for another party. EVERY NS party opposes BOP. The NDP didn't set this system up, and the Conservatives have arguably been the worst.

While it might be lip service, the leaders of two opposition parties are against it: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scot ... anges.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Taxpayers profit when the NSLC does well, but many people in Nova Scotia have come out in support of the U-Vint stores, including the leader of the Official Opposition.

"I think we should be applauding, quite frankly, the entrepreneurial spirit of these men and women who see an opportunity to be able to grow a business, provide a service to you and me that we want to buy and go forward," said Stephen McNeil.

The Liberals have tried five times to legalize on-site brewing, but neither the governing NDP or the previous Progressive Conservative Party showed an interest.

Now the Tories are reconsidering.

"It's just another example of how small businesses providing a necessary service are being squashed by ridiculous regulation," said PC Leader Jamie Baillie.

The new leader said he is even willing to look at selling beer and wine in groceries and corner stores.

"Look, I think it's time to look at new ways of doing things. There are lots of people that defend the old way. I'm not one of them," said Baillie.

[mr x]

Every party does not oppose this. And the NDP did set up the law now being used. The way to punish them is to vote them out.

hardly. the NDP did exactly what every other provincial party would have done if they were in power - they were pressured by a department that makes a big chunk of revenue for them, and in the face of little public outcry, they passed the law. voting them out over this issue won't change anything, no more than voting out the PCs 4 years ago. both parties are complicit. this law has been outdated compared to other provinces for longer than an election cycle. the continuing public outcry is the only thing that will change it.

See chalmers post below yours. Do not underestimate the fear of, or the result of, being voted out of office on legislation. The NDP set up the law being now used against the BOPs. There is no questioning that.

[bluenose]

exactly, let's not forget that the primary responsibility of every politician is to get reelected... if you think it's anything else I have a bridge to sell you

[Dirt Chicken]

Yeah totally, nothing new here. Once a party has some dirt on another party, a new election ( btw elections are costing big tax dollars each and every time) is called eventually, then what happens... Exactly. Each party is statistically shown to vote the same as other parties over 75% of the time. And the common middle class are still always put in their place, in the eyes of whoever holds the seats

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[weir]

If BOP was simply a person renting space for the purpose of brewing their own product, I wouldn't see an issue...but BOP (in some cases) has become Brewer for hire...people paying for a finished product, while not paying the liquor tax...that's wrong...every other brewer has to pay the tax...it's not home brew if someone else is brewing and bottling it for you.

Those taxes fund programs, your programs...

so if the BOP folks follow a rule that the will only sell raw materials, and rent space to brew, I have no issue.

Now if they wanted to tax our raw materials and kits...I'd have a big problem with that

I know for sure my LHBS is not following the rules of the law, and they should be penalized, but do we need a monopoly particularly one this heavy handed? Currently our liquor tax is masquerading as a retail outlet, and the NSLC has almost ultimate control over it. The taxes we're paying here do fund programs to a degree, but to a larger degree they pay some handsome salaries at the NSLC. A quick Google shows Bret Mitchell made $226,488 last year, high, but questionable whether it's fair or not, but he's certainly not the only executive there, how much are they paid in total? So this begs the question, how much of our tax goes to the NSLC management and how much to our programs?

Lets put it this way, if my LHBS goes out of business because of this - which they will if the NSLC wins, they have told me themselves - there's 5 people out of a job, there's EI payments that need to be made and money not put back into the community, there's lost taxes to the town from that business and people leaving town to buy their beer and wine making kits and equipment. Do you think the NSLC will create 5 more jobs in my town that put the same amount of money back into the community? Are they really losing enough income, a small percentage of which goes back into our programs, to use money as a reasonable excuse to shutdown local businesses.

The NDP didn't do this, but as others have said, they gave them these powers and let this happen under their watch. Unfortunately none of our political parties are really a good alternative to one another here, but the people still need to make their voice heard.

Last thing I'll throw out there, I'm far from one of those people who think we shouldn't pay taxes and all government is bad, but I do believe that the current system doesn't work. I'd happily pay taxes if I had a better idea of how much of it went where and a 'reasonable' amount when to everyone who administered those programs for us.

TL;DR Taxes aren't all bad, the NSLC is loosely justifying killing small business, they can s my d

[CorneliusAlphonse]

I know for sure my LHBS is not following the rules of the law, and they should be penalized, but do we need a monopoly particularly one this heavy handed? Currently our liquor tax is masquerading as a retail outlet, and the NSLC has almost ultimate control over it. The taxes we're paying here do fund programs to a degree, but to a larger degree they pay some handsome salaries at the NSLC. A quick Google shows Bret Mitchell made $226,488 last year, high, but questionable whether it's fair or not, but he's certainly not the only executive there, how much are they paid in total? So this begs the question, how much of our tax goes to the NSLC management and how much to our programs?

Lets put it this way, if my LHBS goes out of business because of this - which they will if the NSLC wins, they have told me themselves - there's 5 people out of a job, there's EI payments that need to be made and money not put back into the community, there's lost taxes to the town from that business and people leaving town to buy their beer and wine making kits and equipment. Do you think the NSLC will create 5 more jobs in my town that put the same amount of money back into the community? Are they really losing enough income, a small percentage of which goes back into our programs, to use money as a reasonable excuse to shutdown local businesses.

The NDP didn't do this, but as others have said, they gave them these powers and let this happen under their watch. Unfortunately none of our political parties are really a good alternative to one another here, but the people still need to make their voice heard.

Last thing I'll throw out there, I'm far from one of those people who think we shouldn't pay taxes and all government is bad, but I do believe that the current system doesn't work. I'd happily pay taxes if I had a better idea of how much of it went where and a 'reasonable' amount when to everyone who administered those programs for us.

TL;DR Taxes aren't all bad, the NSLC is loosely justifying killing small business, they can s my d

good summary

[Dirt Chicken]

[derek]

Every party does not oppose this. And the NDP did set up the law now being used. The way to punish them is to vote them out.

I didn't say the NDP didn't pass this law. But Harrington was already convicted under the old law (and remember, this new law only allows for injunctions - the province still has to actually charge him under the old law to get a conviction ), and would be again, and those laws go back so far that all three parties have to accept responsibility. Vote 'em out - I guarantee that won't change anything. otoh, personally threatening to vote against your own MLA (of any party) and getting enough others to do the same might do the job.

Yes, the other party leaders are paying lip service, but they have long-standing opposition, and I don't have enough faith in politicians to believe they'll follow through. There's no political will.

[mr x]

The old law is dead. He was not going to be prosecuted under that law a second time, nor was anybody else. The current situation is 100% owned by the NDP.

Voting them out has a far greater chance of change than voting them back in.

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[TimG]

Voting them out has a far greater chance of change than voting them back in.

Ha, doesn't this just completely summarize Canadian politics? We always keep hoping the 'other guys' are going to do a better job.. but they never do, always the status-quo. Amazing the PC's have been voted back in federally so often really.. but I guess that has more to do with the lackluster competition (Liberals still can't seem to get their shit together!).

PS: I don't mind Harper or the federal PC's 'in general'..

Cheers to 'civilized' discussion on politics on a message board, pretty rare these days. Amazing guys!

[mr x]

I believe the growing trend of social media will make it harder to go back on promises made.

[jeffsmith]

I believe the growing trend of social media will make it harder to go back on promises made.

^ This. Thinking of the usage-based billing for Internet that was proposed a while back. A social media campaign took that down in a week.

[derek]

The old law is dead. He was not going to be prosecuted under that law a second time, nor was anybody else. The current situation is 100% owned by the NDP.

The old law is so not dead. An injunction can have no power at all without the old law. The new law may even be still-born - the BOPs have already got further than the NSLC thought they could.

[mr x]

The old law is dead. It was never to be used again in that form. The way around that was the legislation that was brought in by the majority NDP, and the NDP alone. They own it. So there is no hanging this on any other party.

[CorneliusAlphonse]

The old law is dead. It was never to be used again in that form. The way around that was the legislation that was brought in by the majority NDP, and the NDP alone. They own it. So there is no hanging this on any other party.

the new (NDP-created) law allows the NSLC to get injunctions for anyone breaking the liquor control act. the liquor control act itself has not changed. so it is due to more than just the NDP.